Gibsonm Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 (edited) During a recent network session a platoon of Leo 2A6 came across a BREM-1M ARV at short range. This then took a mix of 30 APFSDS and HE-T rounds at very short range (all < 1,000m) to what appeared to have limited effect (damaged, but not destroyed). Screenshot of 1st round (at the longest range): Link to the AAR. https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZBE0DVZcaXzKOWK85uuSyCUXSE8ipgOy6yX The enemy is in GS 0368 and the engagement starts at 11:14 Perhaps its similar to the MT-55 or Biber where you need to hit it in just the "right" spot (although as it doesn't have the bridge I would have thought it would be straight forward)? Edited December 12, 2022 by Gibsonm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 Perhaps a frontal armor value issue. I was replaying the very same scenario where this issue occured (in Offline Session) and it is replicable. I hitted frontally (very similarly to as it was done in the aforementioned situation, same distance, ammunition, perhaps a slightly different angle of impact), no effect on target. I hitted it sideways at same situation and it was destroyed with 1 APFSDS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted December 12, 2022 Members Share Posted December 12, 2022 May well be that there's another super-shallow angle surface that just soaks up projectile energy, like that "neck" element of a T-72 model recently. I'll have a look at the AAR impact locations shortly to see if they are all in the same area. Well, "inconclusive"; we'll have to check the model of the vehicle itself if there are anomalies. While the hits are all from the front, they seem to be sufficiently distributed that they can't all somehow hit the same surface element that might otherwise absorb all energy. Vehicles that we consider "roomy" on the inside (such as MTLB, or most ARVs) get some sort of a survival bonus against KE rounds (but 30 main gun rounds are too much). Maybe that, plus some dumb luck, and some near-horizontal element conspired in this case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abraxas Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 I can only confirm what Gibsonm said. In tests at 1.000 m I had to use about 20 rounds of 120 mm APDS (DM53). With HEAT I needed less but still about 10 rounds. That's really unrealistic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jartsev Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 First of all, you may see somewhat similar behavior with other vehicles, because damage is based on probability, and lack of ammo or only small arms ammo in crew compartment greatly reduce chance of getting a killing shot. Also note that vehicle, which is reported as still alive on the map, actually may have very long list of crippling damages active, but you will never see that as a shooter or later in AAR. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted December 12, 2022 Members Share Posted December 12, 2022 The whole issue is now registered as bug #11385. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Solution Volcano Posted December 12, 2022 Moderators Solution Share Posted December 12, 2022 Thanks for reporting. Originally it was suspected to be some kind of issue with armor (because this is the most obvious explanation), but after seeing that it is pretty straight forward and relatively simple, further investigations were made. So, after digging further, it seems that because this vehicle was based on the T-72 family, a mistake was made that caused it to (logically) have a Gunner included, when there shouldn't be one. So the issue was that with the crew killed, the vehicle wouldn't ever actually die because the gunner could never be damaged (because he is not physically present). Anyway, that should now be fixed in the next update. (You can tell the BREM-1 erroneously has a gunner present by being in the Mission Editor, right clicking on the vehicle, and going to the damage menu and observing that "Gunner" appears in that list, along with all sorts of other components that the vehicle shouldn't have, which have also been fixed now too). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted December 12, 2022 Author Share Posted December 12, 2022 Thanks for addressing it. Dare I ask, do the same issues apply to the MT-55 and Leopard AVLB, Biber? These aren't as resilient as the BREM, but are often hard nuts to crack. Hits to the bridge area have little effect (understandable) and you need to target the hull to have a reasonable chance of destruction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted December 12, 2022 Moderators Share Posted December 12, 2022 I doubt it, because no one ever complained about those vehicles being hard to kill, but you can easily see this by placing one in a scenario and looking in the damage menu. If they have "Loader" or "Gunner" damage available to disable, then its a similar issue. If not, then its correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted December 12, 2022 Author Share Posted December 12, 2022 Just checked, both only have Commander and Driver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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