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Well is seams that PB911 are giving up on the Wednesday games against SB-Generals due to the fact that they do not enjoy losing almost every week half as much as we enjoy winning.

So I'm putting the call out to see in any others feel like forming a team and trying to stand against us.

For those that don't follow SBG we are a team of about 20 players that get together throughout the week and practice as small groups (companies) then form up for a big game at least once a week.

Up until now PB911 have been very worthy opponents and we have had to work hard to maintain our winning streak. We are looking for new challengers that think they have what it takes to beat the Generals.:ANI_DI:

Edited by fidelthefallguy
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One thing to remember about this community is that most of the older VU's are burnt out. Hundreds of battles over many years. What is needed is new blood, with energy and excitement for SB. And you guys have them all, all. So don't expect much. I guess being one of the only active VU's made that easy.

I tried a few years back to get some of these guys interested in the whole VU vs thing again.

I made up a VU and Called it "2AD" for the 2nd armor division. Because I'm an American, and the 2nd was a highly decorated division, but had sadly been disbanded in the US army.

I only found 1 other VU that had any people willing to fight, and that was SCLH. We had a battle or two, and that was the end of it.

Maybe the update will breath some life into it. I don't know. I would settle for more attendance on TGIF.....

Don't get me wrong though. The Generals willingness to take new guys under their wing, and actually give them a chance to play SB multilayer on a regular basis was, and is a good thing for the community.

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Well is seams that PB911 are giving up on the Wednesday games against SB-Generals due to the fact that they do not enjoy losing almost every week half as much as we enjoy winning.

I'm far from taking sides here, but that strikes me as a very one-sided description of the situation.

You could, for a change, try and accommodate the 911ers by accepting matches with disabled map updates once in a while. It'd be interesting to see how things would play out then.

Just my 2 cents.

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I think it would make for a more realistic match.

No map updates and no external view, and when your dead your dead, no hopping around.

Still champing at the bit to go home and play with my new toy.

Edited by Hedgehog
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I'm far from taking sides here, but that strikes me as a very one-sided description of the situation.

You could, for a change, try and accommodate the 911ers by accepting matches with disabled map updates once in a while. It'd be interesting to see how things would play out then.

Just my 2 cents.

We do try to accommodate them, but some times they ask for unrealistic situations or overly realistic for the that which can be provided by the sim and be enjoyable to play.There latest set of requests include placing penalty zones in all wooded areas, restricting moment to roads and providing them with a copy of our plan and arty strikes before the game starts. I don't think thats is going to happen. I agree that some times we could try and play more realistic tactics, but game time and a lack of realistic training for most of our members makes it a bit hard to pull off. Besides there is more than one was to skin a cat. We have our tactics, realistic in theory but adapted to use in a computer game(or sim what ever) and they have there realistic tactics applied without adaptation to the sim. and the stats show over time ours prevail more often then not. Our unwillingness to play their tactics comes solely from that fact that in real life, when the lead starts flying, you do what you have to to stay alive and complete your mission without worrying about upsetting the guy who is tying to kill you.

Thats my $10 worth.

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Servus guy`s,

I´m a member of PzBtl 911. We had a survey in our community, and I voted to play 2 times per month against SB general. Wy only 2 times? Every match we play, I learn a lot of you guy`s. But your tacticts I don`t like. And this is the problem. We are playing every evening. We try to use real tactics in COOP and H2H scenarios. Ok we try, we are not perfect. But every wednesday it`s the same. Single tank tactic, support vehicles as recon units. M113 med as recon unit. These are things I don`t like. It`s a sim and not a shooter.

kind regards

Duke

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Single tank tactic, support vehicles as recon units. M113 med as recon unit. These are things I don`t like. It`s a sim and not a shooter.

kind regards

Duke

Hey Duke. Hate to say this but this has happend about a year ago, and you are still bringing this up all the time. Whereas you did the same...and you always seem to forget about that. Now I cannot/won'trecord every match just to prove the opposite because I have lot better things to do.

I'd love to have the chance to command some of you guys in my platoon or company so that you see how things workout on our end.

I haven't posted anything regarding this issue in the german forums or here because I'm TIRED of this going on every now and then. What you dont seem to realize that some of our members don't have military backround, they have a family and real life issues to take care of in the first place, and some of them only come online once a week or so.

It's hard to accomodate everybody's needs - especially when we are talking about 30 - 50+ (at best) people. It would be shame if the wednesday battles would be discontinued - personally I'd say keeping it on ice until everybody gets the new update, and lets see where we can go from there.

Kind regards,

Daskal

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Well, if you are going to play against someone then you must accomodate them (and this goes both ways). If the 911 likes no map updates then you must play without no map updates on a balanced occasion. No wonder they aren't too interested in continuing to play if only one side chooses the scene and setting for almost every scenario (I have no idea what the situation is, just making a general observation).

The general population plays with no map updates on occasion at TGIF, and also changes things up every now and then with odd scnearios just to get the "complete experience" -- I don't see why it should be a problem to vary your experience. Unless of course someone is tailoring the experience to fit their strengths because they cannot stand the possibilty of losing? This is a bit humorous though, at one point someone in the Generals was asking about real life vs. game, and no map updates would indeed be more "real life". Maybe we only want selective parts or real life. ;)

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Posted by VM

Well, if you are going to play against someone then you must accomodate them (and this goes both ways). If the 911 likes no map updates then you must play without no map updates on a balanced occasion. No wonder they aren't too interested in continuing to play if only one sides chooses the scene and setting for almos every scenario.

Sounds like you want us to become ass kissers. And in case you didn't know, we alternate the choosing of scenarios between us and 911.
Also posted by VM

We (general population) play with no map updates on occasion at TGIF, and also change things up every now and then to get the "complete experience" -- I don't see why it should be a problem to vary your experience. Unless of course someone is tailoring the experience to fit their strengths because they cannot stand the possibilty of losing?

Yeah, the TGIF games are occasionally no map update, but it sure sucks to play like that. And no, we are NOT tailoring the gameplay to suit us, it is them who are unwilling to change their tactics.
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Sounds like you want us to become ass kissers. And in case you didn't know, we alternate the choosing of scenarios between us and 911.

Yeah, the TGIF games are occasionally no map update, but it sure sucks to play like that. And no, we are NOT tailoring the gameplay to suit us, it is them who are unwilling to change their tactics.

Welllll...

If you dictate that no-map-updates must be off, because 'it sucks' to not have 100% accurate real time position information for all friendly (and any 'spotted' enemy), and then you use that information to game with silly tactics...

That would just be annoying and dumb.

IRL there is a lot of effort spent on coordinating and deconflicting forces, because friendly fire is a reality, and people get lost and disoriented. There are reasons why even 'simple' plans take time to prepare, and why the tempo of operations are not flat out, most of the time... It is true that IFF and Blufor trackers exist, but these are imperfect, not always precise and not every element is covered by them (each individual dismount, maintenance or battle damage casualties etc).

The lack of automagic map updates in no way limits the information provided by the map either - it just requires someone to report their location and the location of friendlies and enemy forces and to plot/update them by hand - if you have 15-25 people per side it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to have an intelligence officer who keeps the map updated in line with the reports from front line elements (and for AI entities - planned or completed movements).

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I'm far from taking sides here, but that strikes me as a very one-sided description of the situation.

You could, for a change, try and accommodate the 911ers by accepting matches with disabled map updates once in a while. It'd be interesting to see how things would play out then.

Just my 2 cents.

Actually we do accommodate 911, we take turns on which VU chooses a scenario each week and they have never been any discussion on playing with NO map updates. For the past year and an half I'm the one that have introduce No map updates to battles and the census is not many people like it.

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Welllll...

If you dictate that no-map-updates must be off, because 'it sucks' to not have 100% accurate real time position information for all friendly (and any 'spotted' enemy), and then you use that information to game with silly tactics...

That would just be annoying and dumb.

IRL there is a lot of effort spent on coordinating and deconflicting forces, because friendly fire is a reality, and people get lost and disoriented. There are reasons why even 'simple' plans take time to prepare, and why the tempo of operations are not flat out, most of the time... It is true that IFF and Blufor trackers exist, but these are imperfect, not always precise and not every element is covered by them (each individual dismount, maintenance or battle damage casualties etc).

The lack of automagic map updates in no way limits the information provided by the map either - it just requires someone to report their location and the location of friendlies and enemy forces and to plot/update them by hand - if you have 15-25 people per side it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to have an intelligence officer who keeps the map updated in line with the reports from front line elements (and for AI entities - planned or completed movements).

Intelligence officers, eh?

Theres an idea.

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I don't understand why its so hard for people to learn to play without map updates. Learning to read a map, use the tank compass, and figure out where you are from that is an important part of the puzzle. Maybe its the fact that it forces people to communicate more. Radio discipline has not been very good the last year or so, and I've been slacking off as well. I ran one no map updates mission a month or two ago and the amount of chaos it caused was pretty surprising.

Want to get better at this sim? Learn how to read the map. Recon the 3d world during the briefing and know where you are going to go. If the co issues orders to advance down a line, do your own recon down that route and find protected routes and places to observe your path to see if its still clear. Learn not to depend entirely on the map to know where you are.

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Yes I agree. The big reason for no map updates is to promote realistic communication between users. I find it rather enjoyable to force realistic crosstalk between people; it builds up the immersiveness for one thing. But some people want a brain dead experience, "let me have my one single tank platoon, send one tank out at a time and try to be the one with the most kills at the end of the scenario. I don't want to actually have to communicate with others!". Pure stupidity.

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