Lumituisku Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Just wondering here.. weapon that player can reliably aim has highest trajectory on 1-4 (up to 6) km distance? (Mortar and missiles excluded) We don't have any low recoil guns yet as crew able? Like on BMP-1 / Scorpion? I suppose T-72 may actually be good choice here... Also wondering Challenger 2 with HESH (i already feel at limit of my masochism when mentioning that ) Also thinking that the dispersion and effect of wind will start to effect so much... That it will be plain ineffective and near impossible to hit anything firing indirectly. Even if one would have drone spotting and helping to aim. And what i am thinking is indirect firing ability guided by drone. But i suspect it just wouldn't work or would be so difficult that it wouldn't be worth it. Atleast it wouldn't work like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1sDumkxaWU Still it is something i have tried few times to get work... But so far without luck. And perhaps for good riddance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSe419E Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 M60A3 using the GAS with HEP/WP. Should be good for 4400m. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumituisku Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 I'll give it a go! Any tips to make it more successful? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSe419E Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Make sure your scenario has lots of HEP/WP loaded at the beginning. Realize that the target at that range should be an area target because point targets are going to be hard to differentiate with that sight at that range. Having a second vehicle to help spot the fall of the shot is a good idea. The round WILL drift even from shot to shot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumituisku Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 That's what I am afraid. SB is not like WT where map size is abusmally small (in comparison) and rounds probably won't have significant dispersion either. That's why I was actually wondering if we have any other weapons with high trajectory. Reqoilles riffle comes to mind... Would be interesting although not currently possible to try this with Scorpion, BMP-1, BMP-3, PT-76... Was there any other low recoil guns in the game? Though I do remember how horrible inaccurate BMP-1 and Scorpion are... So I suspect the idea of it being useful beyond being area weapon is simply not possible. And the other thing is.. as i recently read from Finnish Armor magazine that with indirect fires the most essential thing is effectiveness. One must get enough guns to fire small enough area to achieve "Stopping / destructive) effect. With just few inaccurate guns.. it has Virtually no effect and it's just waste. (Abuse of AI that hasn't been scripted to react) However... I can imagine couple of situations where this could be useful. Problem is that these situations are so rare and unlikely that to train for such especially alone (with very little possibility for actual effect) is laughable. And change to get say.. full platoon of players able to do this... And not having better things to do with time or ammo. Yeaa... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSe419E Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 It would be interesting to see a platoon of player controlled M60s firing HEP at a target 3 - 4 km away under the direction of an observer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumituisku Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 20 minutes ago, TSe419E said: It would be interesting to see a platoon of player controlled M60s firing HEP at a target 3 - 4 km away under the direction of an observer. It would! I would love to experiment with that sometime. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution Gibsonm Posted April 13, 2023 Solution Share Posted April 13, 2023 5 hours ago, Lumituisku said: Just wondering here.. weapon that player can reliably aim has highest trajectory on 1-4 (up to 6) km distance? (Mortar and missiles excluded) We don't have any low recoil guns yet as crew able? Like on BMP-1 / Scorpion? I'm not sure exactly what you are after - I think it looses a bit in the translation. However there is a crewable RCL in game, albeit mounted on the back of a technical. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSe419E Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Gibsonm said: I'm not sure exactly what you are after - I think it looses a bit in the translation. However there is a crewable RCL in game, albeit mounted on the back of a technical. Or a 113. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumituisku Posted April 13, 2023 Author Share Posted April 13, 2023 Well to put it short. I think vehicles in question are RCL and DF90 I am definitely going to do lot more testing with these two. Also.. on list is T-72m1 and Challenger 2... and as follows rest of the MBTs but on those since there is no way to measure elevation things are complicated. Uh oh.. CV9040 is on list too! That actually is a beast, it would just need vehicle to observe its fires. It can actually fire like 5k indirect fire with HE-T 8 round salvos. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 I believe the Soviets had a drill where if they were under ATGM fire they'd have a Battalion of Tanks just lob HE rounds at the nearest treeline. It's similar to but not exactly what Lumi describes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSe419E Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Lumituisku said: Well to put it short. I think vehicles in question are RCL and DF90 I am definitely going to do lot more testing with these two. Also.. on list is T-72m1 and Challenger 2... and as follows rest of the MBTs but on those since there is no way to measure elevation things are complicated. Uh oh.. CV9040 is on list too! That actually is a beast, it would just need vehicle to observe its fires. It can actually fire like 5k indirect fire with HE-T 8 round salvos. That is why I recommended the M60 because the GAS has a graduated reticle (Chally and Sho't Kal too). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted April 13, 2023 Members Share Posted April 13, 2023 Centurion/Sho't Kal's retigule is accurate, but atrocious (since it's non-standardized and tailored to imperial units). Leopard 1 GAS reticule is probably better suited, but only out to the max range provided for HESH engagements. The instruments inside for true indirect fire (spirit level on the left for the gun elevation, azimuth rose on the right) are not functional (or at least probably not functional enough). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 On 4/14/2023 at 1:40 AM, Ssnake said: (spirit level on the left for the gun elevation, azimuth rose on the right) are not functional (or at least probably not functional enough). Are there chances to change that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 On 4/14/2023 at 1:40 AM, Ssnake said: Centurion/Sho't Kal's retigule is accurate, but atrocious (since it's non-standardized and tailored to imperial units). Leopard 1 GAS reticule is probably better suited, but only out to the max range provided for HESH engagements. The instruments inside for true indirect fire (spirit level on the left for the gun elevation, azimuth rose on the right) are not functional (or at least probably not functional enough). Some testing out to 5 km....how far out are tank rounds "calculated" in the game anyway? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted April 19, 2023 Members Share Posted April 19, 2023 22 minutes ago, Grenny said: Some testing out to 5 km....how far out are tank rounds "calculated" in the game anyway? Something around 10km or so, I seem to remember. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted April 19, 2023 Members Share Posted April 19, 2023 45 minutes ago, Grenny said: Are there chances to change that? Well, back then the military customer didn't think it was necessary to implement it. Now, I sense slight regret in recent conversations, but the Leopard 1 is no longer in our customers' active service. It'd be hard to find someone who even remembers accurately how it was done. So, it could be done, "in principle". I'd be interested to have it done. But I don't think it will happen, simply because I also have a lot of other tasks competing for priority. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSe419E Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 48 minutes ago, Ssnake said: It'd be hard to find someone who even remembers accurately how it was done. No it wouldn't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 3 hours ago, TSe419E said: No it wouldn't. From memory its the same technique as semi-indirect but with someone outside the turret providing quadrant elevation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted April 19, 2023 Members Share Posted April 19, 2023 3 hours ago, TSe419E said: No it wouldn't. Great, then that question is solved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 On 4/14/2023 at 8:50 AM, Hedgehog said: I believe the Soviets had a drill where if they were under ATGM fire they'd have a Battalion of Tanks just lob HE rounds at the nearest treeline. It's similar to but not exactly what Lumi describes. That is their response to any kind of threat, though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishHussar Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 Hi most indirect shoots are above 3000m, in order to get the elevation required you cannot in use your graticle pattern or balistic aiming marks. On the real vehicles you would then use equipments like a quadrant fire controllers which allow you to find the true horizontal level of the gun barrell and there after apply measured angles of elevation. This then gives you the ability, after accessing the fall of shot, to apply measured corrections in order to bring accurate fire onto the target. In this sim we dont have that pysical equipment so true semi indirect or indirect fire is not really possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, IrishHussar said: In this sim we dont have that pysical equipment so true semi indirect or indirect fire is not really possible. Well, the "turret clock" in the M60 and Leo1 are modelled, but not functional. Then we need the elevation quadrant. And that in a view option where the player can "see" both and still move gun/turret could be fun in MP games with one player at the tank and another operating a UAV to spot the impacts Edited April 23, 2023 by Grenny 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumituisku Posted April 23, 2023 Author Share Posted April 23, 2023 30 minutes ago, Grenny said: Well, the "turret clock" in the M60 and Leo1 are modelled, but not functional. Then we need the elevation quadrant. And that in a view option where the player anc "see" both and still move gun/turret could be fun in MP games with one player at the tank and another operating a UAV to spot the impacts Exatly! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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