Ghost Posted April 20, 2009 Author Share Posted April 20, 2009 I'm about to give up on this since no one seems to be listening to what i'm saying, there is some serious issue with SB 2.460 performance, i have so far tried on Vista-64 and Windows 7 both 64 and 32-bit. I'm going to reinstall Windows XP to see if theres any difference. I've never had any performance issues in SB before, everything has been running fine, of course i could get low FPS in extremely large scenearios, but nothing like this, I'm suspecting it has something to do with how things are rendered, since the ground geometry slider doesn't do much, neither does changing the viewdistance in the scenario editor, something seems to have changed in how trees or maybe other ground objects render since i can be looking in one direction having super FPS then i look in another direction and everything dies without the scenery being much different.I also noticed that smoke and artillery completely rapes my computer and yet i can hear other people saying they have no issues whatsoever even on slower systems, i guess this could be a combined SB/driver/os issue but i just find the FPS slowdowns to be extemely wierd, I do have over 15 years of gamer experience so i think i can safelly tell when an issue is being caused by a slow computer and when it's caused by something else 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskil Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Hi Ghost,as you can see in the Steel Beasts FPS Thread there seems to be an issue with Vista and Nvidia Cards. I've noticed the same slowdowns as you did. The game ist almost unplayable.What i've read so far is, that ATI Cards doesn't seem to be affected. I will try some older driver version for Vista, to see if this helps. I'll keep you updated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porphyr Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I'm about to give up on this since no one seems to be listening to what i'm saying, there is some serious issue with SB 2.460 performance, i have so far tried on Vista-64 and Windows 7 both 64 and 32-bit. I'm going to reinstall Windows XP to see if theres any difference. I've never had any performance issues in SB before, everything has been running fine, of course i could get low FPS in extremely large scenearios, but nothing like this, I'm suspecting it has something to do with how things are rendered, since the ground geometry slider doesn't do much, neither does changing the viewdistance in the scenario editor, something seems to have changed in how trees or maybe other ground objects render since i can be looking in one direction having super FPS then i look in another direction and everything dies without the scenery being much different.I also noticed that smoke and artillery completely rapes my computer and yet i can hear other people saying they have no issues whatsoever even on slower systems, i guess this could be a combined SB/driver/os issue but i just find the FPS slowdowns to be extemely wierd, I do have over 15 years of gamer experience so i think i can safelly tell when an issue is being caused by a slow computer and when it's caused by something elseI have the same problems as you. Tried the new upgrade and performance is horrible in some maps and in some views. But in some maps fps is good but take a deep plunge as soon as I look in a very specific direction. I quickly tried the FPS testing mission and I'm down to unplayable fps in many of the views. On some other views (zoomed in) FPS is rocksteady at 62. Missions that used to slow down a little bit because they involve a lot of action are down to single digits, but a slight change of view and fps is back at 62. It feels like it has to do with something in the scenery, but as you say, the sliders don't really make a big difference. Neither the AA AF settings do much. So my guess is that it isn't really the amount of scenary, but rather a some aspect of it or which kills the rendering. Still, it's hard to pinpoint exactly what...I'm running Windows 7 64bit, Nvidia 8800GTS and a core duo at 3.18 mhz. 4 GB Ram. I have tried both Vista drivers and the latest Windows 7 beta drivers from Nvidia.cheers Porphyr 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 yeah, i got an nvidia 9800 and vista 64, and i've got weird slowdowns as well in SB. i think its some issue with the latest drivers, if i remember correctly, nvidia drivers pre- ***70 something were fluid and fine, but the latest are just a complete dredge. i got issues in ETW, and 3ds max too.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furia Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 thanks for the info Furia, but i think this problems is not really about people running on to weak hardware getting low fps because of that, many of the FPS issues are very irratical, like my slowdown from the TC view, somebody mentioned that it had to do with the larger FOV from TC position, because the FPS goes back up when you use binos, problem is I should be experiencing the same thing in external view (F8) but i don't.I would guess this is some combination of an SB bug/compatibilty problem with Vista 64. Could also be driver related, but just to clear things up im not experiencing the same problems as the guys with the GTX260/280 cards, who have very low fps all over on Vista 64bit systems Ghost, I run Sb on my laptop for first time with an Nnvidia Card 8600GS M and it runs fine with an average from 40 fps to 20 fps on worst case. My laptop is not the most advanced one so I suggest again give it a try to the Nhancer. There I created a profile for Sb with Anti-Alising Multisampling 16xQ and Aniostropic filter at 16x plus other settings. And it gives me a nice perfomance so far no matter if on the TC possition or gunner or driver, at least on the Leo2E that is the only one vehicle I have used so far. Give it a try 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskil Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Fi Furia,which OS do u use on your laptop? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furia Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Vista Home Editon premium 32 bit 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porphyr Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Vista Home Editon premium 32 bitFuriaDid you run the FPS test mission? If so how did your setup fare with that one? Without comparing the same mission/map with different settings/hardware it's hard to judge the Fps results. Ssnakes earlier post indicates that the problem could be with some of the ground clutter or the trees. As these differs in amount and style from map to map, it's probably a good idea to use the test map when comparing results. I will do it properly tonight myself, and post my hardware and fps results in the test thread.Cheers Porphyr 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted April 20, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 20, 2009 (edited) I'm about to give up on this since no one seems to be listening to what i'm saying, there is some serious issue with SB 2.460 performance...Interesting. Who isn't listening to what you are saying? And what exactly do you think the solution is? Tailor SB to the nVidia Geforce 8800 GTX? Good, because we think so too; the presence of the Detail sliders and the resolution settings are available so that it can be tailored. You may have to make compromises here as well as turn off or adjust global 3D settings on the card itself to get better performance.I'm suspecting it has something to do with how things are rendered, since the ground geometry slider doesn't do much, neither does changing the viewdistance in the scenario editor, something seems to have changed in how trees or maybe other ground objects render since i can be looking in one direction having super FPS then i look in another direction and everything dies without the scenery being much different.The graphics engine in SB is the same as it was in the previous versions (2.x), nothing has been completely rewritten. All you need to do is look at the FPS tests and see that they differ greatly and that the nVidia GTX 280 or Geforce 8800 is not the epitome of awesomeness. In this hypothetical case, whether it is hardware related with the card, or whether it is driver related then either of those issues are on nVidia's end. The purpose of the FPS test though is to demonstrate the drastic differences in hardware configuartions and to hopefully help people pick the best graphics card for them.It has already been noticed and mentioned that there is a problem with the (ALT+D) slider settings in SB when they are set to higher than Default levels, and that part is currently being looked into. However, if you ran the FPS test then it states to set sliders at the default setting. I can't help but notice though that I have yet to see a FPS test result posting for your end on that scenario. Or maybe you did run the test and post the results and I just missed it.If you still get perfermance problems at default settings then, again, it sounds like hardware related issues. Of course no one is advocating people to go out and purchase new video cards but, as we can see in the FPS excel document, the ATI Radeon HD4870 seems to be the best and most affordable card at the moment. Other than that, what response do you expect to get? The FPS tests seem to point out obvious flaws in some of the graphics cards, but you seem adament that the issue is not hardware related. Can you not reduce some of the detail, change the resolution, or probably cut back on the AA and AF to possibly get better results? Perhaps the setting of detail sliders above default is what is causing the issue on some cards. Edited April 20, 2009 by Volcano clarification 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahrborg Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 This thread should be updated with latest nVidia cards, to give new customers a better idea of what g-cards works or not with SB. Perhaps the 8800 and x260/80 should be in yellow, have a text next to it, or something to give ppl a warning of what might occur. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Sean Posted April 20, 2009 Administrators Share Posted April 20, 2009 There's something going on in nvidias drivers - figuring it out was the purpose of the FPS test to begin with. It seems like most have good luck with nvidia and XP/vista32, but something is not right with the 64 bit drivers. After doing some looking around, nvidia was quoted saying something along the lines of this: "We underestimated the engineering effort associated with making new drivers for vista, and took a top down approach to developing them". Which means that instead of doing it right and implementing everything from the bottom up, they went around putting out fires to make sure it worked with certain games. As you can imagine, this sim is way below the radar for them which is why I have encouraged people to file bug reports on nvidia's site. I don't know if nvidia is deprecating dx9 functions or has just not implemented them all, but somehow things seem to work with older nvidia cards/drivers and ATI cards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskil Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 So, back from work. I've tried all the drivers from Detonator 182.50 down to 177.79 on Vista 64. No luck with framerate improvement. Unfortuenatly older drivers don't support my 9800 GTX+. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porphyr Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I have some good news. I tried the oldest driver I could find in Nvidia archived drives for Vista 64bit, that supports the 8800GTS. From the Nvidia site. I then did the FPS test and the difference was huge! Check my posted results in the Fps test thread. Link I Haven't tried a lot more missions, but it certainly looks very promising. Ghost, your 8800GTX should be able to use that driver as well, I don't think the OS difference between Vista 64bit or Windows 7 64 bit which I have should be a problem. Hope this works out for more people with 8 series Nvidia cards. Windows 7 64bit beta Intel Core duo 6600 @ 3.18 Ghz Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTS 640 MB Driver 163.75 (from November 6 2007) (For Vista 64bit) 4 GB RAM Creative SB X-FI 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted April 20, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 20, 2009 Wow, thanks for that info. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskil Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I've filed a bug report at http://www.nvidia.com/object/vistaqualityassurance.html maybe those affected by the issue may do that too. I think NVIDIA is not going to investigate the issue if its only reported once. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 Dont try to push those inferior ATI cards on me VMan, i'm on to you... :-)Your cheap jedi mind tricks does nothing to me!I would never defile my PCI-Express slot by putting an ATI card there, It would be as bad as a baptist accepting satan as his saviour....I'm happy where i am with my brand new tin-foil hat and my "epitome of awesomeness" card...mmmmmm.... mmmmmmm... mmmmmmm... cant hear you man...:-)Awesome info porphyr, i'll try them as soon as i can, allthough i already see a problem with running old drivers like this for people who play other games than SB, i have on the other hand an os dedicated to SB only so it should be ok.Volcano, so far no changes what so ever has helped i have been fiddling with the global setting like crazy but no combination has made any noticable improvement so far, funny thing is that even if i turn of anti aliasing and AF completely there is no huge change in FPS and the extreme framedrops still occur.i still have to test out some really oldschool drivers, since as i stated before SB has always been running supersmooth for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porphyr Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Awesome info porphyr, i'll try them as soon as i can, allthough i already see a problem with running old drivers like this for people who play other games than SB, i have on the other hand an os dedicated to SB only so it should be ok. True, using a two year old driver might mean other problems. I wish one could create a profile for a game and specify which driver version to use and pick it from a library of stored drivers on the hdd. It's no longer enough to only create profiles within the limits of one driver version, as they all seem to have pros and some severe cons... I might try drivers later than the 163.75 and see if there is a breaking point so to speak, or if the performance is continuously getting worse with every new driver. In my case it certainly looked like something was broken in the rendering, as performance with latest windows 7 64bit and vista 64 bit drivers was horrible, even in low resolution and with no AA or AF applied. I'm very happy the 163.75 worked so well with my set up, now I can fully enjoy the fine upgrade and dig deeper into SB Pro Pe. Hope you and others find the magic bullet for your system as well! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted April 21, 2009 Author Share Posted April 21, 2009 EPIC! it works!!!!Installed the 163.75 vista drivers on my windows 7, everything works flawlesly, 62.50 FPS across the board... fucking awesome!!!Thanks for bringing up the idea and testing old drivers, i was thinking about it earlier since it's only recently i have experienced theese huge problems but I never came around to trying it.If we ever meet i will buy you a lot of beer!On a side note....Tänkte på ditt namn, du råkar inte komma från Älvdalen?EDITTurned out the 163.75 driver was causing some instability on my system, the driver itself was crashing and recovering randomly, i have now switched to the 175.19 driver and it is working fine so far, I'm gonna move up and see if i can determine which driver it is that is causing the problems and see if theres anything in the readme notes that can explain what's causing the trouble. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted April 21, 2009 Moderators Share Posted April 21, 2009 Dont try to push those inferior ATI cards on me VMan, i'm on to you... :-)Your cheap jedi mind tricks does nothing to me! LOL, I tried. Mind tricks don't work you... only money! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 EPIC! it works!!!! no cookie for me? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 no cookie for me? Oh I'm sorry Deja, here you go... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Hi. Sadly the performance of SB Pro is horrible when using gunner/commander sights. Yes, I know, badly written Vista x64 nVidia drivers. Love this sim but its unplayable when framerates drop from 62,5 to 5. *sigh* Just hoping for better drivers soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porphyr Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 EPIC! it works!!!!Installed the 163.75 vista drivers on my windows 7, everything works flawlesly, 62.50 FPS across the board... fucking awesome!!! Thanks for bringing up the idea and testing old drivers, i was thinking about it earlier since it's only recently i have experienced theese huge problems but I never came around to trying it. If we ever meet i will buy you a lot of beer! On a side note.... Tänkte på ditt namn, du råkar inte komma från Älvdalen? EDIT Turned out the 163.75 driver was causing some instability on my system, the driver itself was crashing and recovering randomly, i have now switched to the 175.19 driver and it is working fine so far, I'm gonna move up and see if i can determine which driver it is that is causing the problems and see if theres anything in the readme notes that can explain what's causing the trouble. Nice! The 163.75 is stable so far on my system, but I will try later ones and compare the results as well. Anyhow, it's good to know that there is a way to get good performance with the 8 series of cards. Nej, jag är inte från Älvdalen eller industrin där... Jag sitter säkert på västkusten, så jag borde kanske valt "Granite" istället Fast namnvalet är ursprungligen mer komplicerat än att bara hitta en lämplig bergart. Men det får vi ta över den där ölen! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 Hi. Sadly the performance of SB Pro is horrible when using gunner/commander sights. Yes, I know, badly written Vista x64 nVidia drivers. Love this sim but its unplayable when framerates drop from 62,5 to 5. *sigh* Just hoping for better drivers soon. Well have you tried installing the old drivers like we did? 163.75 or 175.19 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Well have you tried installing the old drivers like we did? 163.75 or 175.19No, not sure if old drivers support GTX 295 cards. Furthermore I am not too happy to shop for drivers wich will perhaps help one application to work but fail others. My computer runs great and stable now with all my other applications and I do not want to break that. All I do now is report my problem at nVidia's support and wait. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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