Leclerc Tank

[Tacbat]

:wink:

[FletchRDG]

I agree the thread has branched off abit but it is an interestin subject the LeClerc itself has braught up.

[Froggy]

Leclerc: war name of a french general, Philippe de Hautecloque. It's a name.

LeClerc: the clerk, it's a noun.

[FletchRDG]

you knew what i ment i know its a general but i mean the subject matter

[PJ-Maybe]

Leclerc: war name of a french general, Philippe de Hautecloque. It's a name.

LeClerc: the clerk, it's a noun.

It's a shop as well, But I prefer Carrefour:) Intermarche are a bit lacking in the discount zone. And Intermarche (Here)don't have Bluray films which is a real turn off for me. But our local Carrefour has the best deals (Portet, Toulouse)

[Froggy]

E.Leclerc (shop) is the name of the owner Edouard Leclerc

In my previous unitI had a Platoon leader, ADJ Leclerc, Leclerc platoon leader of the Leclerc Cavalery (6-12 RC) , in the Leclerc Division (2ème DB)!

[DarkLabor]

E.Leclerc (shop) is the name of the owner Edouard Leclerc

In my previous unitI had a Platoon leader, ADJ Leclerc, Leclerc platoon leader of the Leclerc Cavalery (6-12 RC) , in the Leclerc Division (2ème DB)!

It's nice!

So many Leclerc in the same place! :biggrin:

[Malakie]

I just want to see the top of the line current tank and armored vehicle models for all major countries today. THEN we could really create some interesting scenarios.. U.S.A., England, Russia, China, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Israel, Egypt, N. Korea, Syria, Iran... those would be a good start and allow for some very active and interesting combat scenarios......

although I admit I am biased, I have no doubt the M1A2 Sep V2 would come out on top.... :-)

Seriously though, after reading many of the posts, in reality I think the U.S. and British forces would currently have the upper hand in any tank on tank combat. With the current experience and active training from Iraq and Afghanistan, the crew can make all the difference in the world. Although Iraq and the equipment was subpar, the fact our forces have been in live fire situations makes a big difference no matter whether it was a tank, apc, technical, car or sniper/attack building.

[FletchRDG]

Well experience isnt everything but it certainly helps but you should never under estimate the enemy. Whether they be in a LeClerc, a Leo 2A5/A6, a Merkava, Abrams M1A1/A2 SEP or a Challenger 2E, the enemy can always get sneaky or clever. But one day, if it happens, what if a terrorist group managed to get their hands on a fleet of tanks.

Actually come to think of it, I dont want to imagine a terrorist group in tanks because lets face it that would be scary. Who would we call to solve that problem because the SAS and Navy Seals cant take on tanks, it would be suicide.

[dejawolf]

ink of it, I dont want to imagine a terrorist group in tanks because lets face it that would be scary. Who would we call to solve that problem because the SAS and Navy Seals cant take on tanks, it would be suicide.

scary? they woudn't be able to maintain or use the tanks.

islamist "tactics" consists of praying to allah that the bullet strike the enemy.

[DrDevice]

But one day, if it happens, what if a terrorist group managed to get their hands on a fleet of tanks.

Actually come to think of it, I dont want to imagine a terrorist group in tanks because lets face it that would be scary. Who would we call to solve that problem because the SAS and Navy Seals cant take on tanks, it would be suicide.

A hidden army of armor-trained terrorists? Are you serious? :cul:

Having a bunch of tanks isn't scary. Tanks are plenty fragile (if we learn nothing from SB, it's that tanks aren't invulnerable) when faced with attack aircraft and choppers, let alone the well-trained professional soldiers who might be in tanks opposite them.

Why in the hell would you send "SAS and Navy Seals [sic]" to solve a problem involving tanks? Why not whistle up Apaches or A-10s or other tanks? And give those infantryman the right tools (a Javelin or other current-generation ATGM) and I think you'll find that the "Terror Tanks" don't last very long.

Your scenario might make for a movie on some bad cable channel, but it's really not something I'd lose sleep over.

[IrishHussar]

Actually come to think of it, I dont want to imagine a terrorist group in tanks because lets face it that would be scary. Who would we call to solve that problem because the SAS and Navy Seals cant take on tanks, it would be suicide.

Actually it very nearly happened up in Catterick last year.

Luckily though, the Garrison Quartermaster had sent all the Challenger 2 tanks away to Chillwell for the total fleet management just before the RDGs arrived from Germany LOl.

Irish

[FletchRDG]

Having a bunch of tanks isn't scary. Tanks are plenty fragile (if we learn nothing from SB, it's that tanks aren't invulnerable) when faced with attack aircraft and choppers, let alone the well-trained professional soldiers who might be in tanks opposite them.

Its not just the fact that if they had tanks its the fact if they sprung an attack on an unsuspecting country, in tanks, could that countries armour be mobilised quickly enough stop it.

Well the SAS are trained to take out just about anything within reason arent they? mind you a squad of 8 highly trained men cant take on say 40 tanks, trained tank crews or not lol I guess my mind was runnin away on that one, would make an awesomely outragous action thriller lol move over die hard lol

but how were they going to pull that one off Irish, im sure that those tanks are always being watched. Well they were when i was in germany, i dont think there was a time i never saw a crew on the tank park. It sounds like a story line from Metal gear solid lol terrorists find something they like, which is new, and nick it and hold the whole world randsom lol with one exception a challenger 2 doesnt have a Nuclear Railgun lol

I know i play too many games but hey im part of the "playstation Generation" lol

[FletchRDG]

Your scenario might make for a movie on some bad cable channel, but it's really not something I'd lose sleep over.

ah I wouldnt jump the gun there, If i remember rightly in america a cleaner, yes a cleaner, climbed into and started up an National Guard M60A1 MBT and was roaming the civi streets. crushing peoples cars, knocking lamp posts down and very nearly crushing a few people on the street. It took an entire police force, a mashed up car and a lamp post to stop it. ( ithink he was shot by an arresting officer, in the hand, but im not entirely sure)

Then a few years later a man had decided to turn his bulldozer into an ancient tank (he welded huge, inch thick armour plates to the sides front back and top, i think at that point he spent too much and was left abit of cash for a shotgun for the cannon lol). he went abit "Why" happy and started knocking Governing Officials houses, starting with the mayors. He eventually ran out of fuel and in the end he blew his head off.

Its quite a real threat whether people realise it or not.

[IrishHussar]

but how were they going to pull that one off Irish, im sure that those tanks are always being watched.

I know i play too many games but hey im part of the "playstation Generation" lol

I think you missed the point. I was referring to the RDGs as the Terrorists LOL

Irish

[ShotMagnet]

A hidden army of armor-trained terrorists? Are you serious

I have some, I thought everyone had some. Maybe I'm mistaken...

... If i remember rightly in america a cleaner, yes a cleaner, climbed into and started up an National Guard M60A1 MBT and was roaming the civi streets. crushing peoples cars, knocking lamp posts down and very nearly crushing a few people on the street. It took an entire police force, a mashed up car and a lamp post to stop it. ( ithink he was shot by an arresting officer, in the hand, but im not entirely sure)

Then a few years later a man had decided to turn his bulldozer into an ancient tank (he welded huge, inch thick armour plates to the sides front back and top, i think at that point he spent too much and was left abit of cash for a shotgun for the cannon lol). he went abit "Why" happy and started knocking Governing Officials houses, starting with the mayors. He eventually ran out of fuel and in the end he blew his head off.

It didn't take an entire police force, for the former instance. It took one man with a pistol, who opened a hatch that the perpetrator hadn't dogged.

As for the bulldozer, that individual was eventually brought to bay as well.

In neither instance were especially-elaborate anti-armor tactics employed.

Shot

[Ssnake]

"Terrorists" can't have access to tanks (and the bility to maintain them) because the instant that they use them they become some sort of an army. An insurget, irregular army, but an army nonetheless.

Terrorism is a method of extreme asymmetry, with hit and run tactics as the only viable option, and extremely clandestine operation of independent cells. This makes them difficult to eliminate, and an the same time very weak as far as the application of hard power is concerned. The only thing terrorists can do are, well, terror attacks which are designed to create a maximum of attention for the kind of more or less wacky goal that the terrorists are trying to promote. That could be "Liberty for Wackistan!" or "Follow my god, or else!".

They may be able to target decision makers and leaders, they may be able to commit mass murder (9/11), or poison wells, lay mines, perform acts of cybercrime, or just harmless, wacky plots like "pudding bombs" (Germany, 1969, against a US ambassador; the plot was foiled).

Once that they acquire heavy equipment they no longer are asymmetrical by definition, at least not technology wise. They are becoming some sort of an army. An example would be the Tamil Tigers who at their high time had T-55s, a navy, and planes. They still resorted to terrorist methods with their bombs and assassinations in the rest of Sri Lanka and India, but as we could observe over the past weeks they could be attacked with conventional army weapons, tactics, and methods because they no longer operated with the clandestine cell modus operandi.

Tanks are probably the least suitable weapon for terrorism that I can think of. Well, OK, maybe an aircraft carrier is even less suitable.

[FletchRDG]

well it might sound stupid but they are capable of absolutely anything and if they can they will use anything they get their hands on, and half of those assisting the terrorists are from the West. So who's to say that they wont do it? and we will never know what they're capable of creating because they could use their background ie from what they've learnt from working. An example if a man was to come to the UK or America, learn to weld, they get really good at it and then go back to their country they could apply that to just about anything. Agian, if a fanatic (obviously hiding the fact that he is) was to join the US or UK forces, learn, train and he then signs out, then takes all that training and Knowledge and trains up more kids back in his home country.

lol as mad as it does sound it could very well happen. If they were to learn anything from previous wars and apply it, like a Blitzkreig tactic then what would happen?

i wouldn't dismiss it completely.

sorry Irish , well nothings safe with them troopers lol:ANI_army:

[KAreil]

well it might sound stupid but they are capable of absolutely anything and if they can they will get their hands on anything, and half of those assisting the terrorists are from the West. So who's to say that they wont do it? and we will never know what they're capable of creating because they could use their background ie from what they've learnt from working. An example if a man was to come to the UK or America, learn to weld, they get really good at it and then go back to their country they could apply that to just about anything.

well i refer back to the job thing, if a fanatic (obviously hding the fact that he is) was to join the US or UK forces, learn, train and then take all that training and train up more kids back in his home country.

lol as mad as it does sound it could very well happen. If they were to learn anything from previous wars and apply it, like a Blitzkreig tactic then what would happen?

i wouldn't dismiss it completely.

sorry Irish, well nothings safe with troopers lol:P

I don't think they would be a real threat for a whole country......even if they can manage to field a tank company or battailon it won't stand a chance...

They will cause a lot of casualties, but as soon as the threat is discovered they can be taken out by airforce and the professional army.

And to use the "Blitzkrieg tactic" you mentioned, they would need artillery, air support,...

And I don't think they can manage all this without getting noticed...

[dejawolf]

well it might sound stupid but they are capable of absolutely anything and if they can they will use anything they get their hands on, and half of those assisting the terrorists are from the West. So who's to say that they wont do it? and we will never know what they're capable of creating because they could use their background ie from what they've learnt from working. An example if a man was to come to the UK or America, learn to weld, they get really good at it and then go back to their country they could apply that to just about anything. Agian, if a fanatic (obviously hiding the fact that he is) was to join the US or UK forces, learn, train and he then signs out, then takes all that training and Knowledge and trains up more kids back in his home country.

lol as mad as it does sound it could very well happen. If they were to learn anything from previous wars and apply it, like a Blitzkreig tactic then what would happen?

i wouldn't dismiss it completely.

sorry Irish , well nothings safe with them troopers lol:ANI_army:

you think arabs aren't capable of welding without coming to america?

heck, all you need to start welding is take a trip to your local hardware store, buy a MIG welder, a pair of welder gloves, some bottles of gas, wire, weld mask, fire retardant suit, a bunch of metal plates, some common sense and a bit of talent, and you're set.

[Hedgehog]

Terrorists running tanks? Don't be daft.

They will either

A) Run out of fuel/ammo during their attack.

Or

B) Die.

Assuming that the terrorists are backwatered idiots, and the opposition is someone like the British Army, with forewarning.

I Refer you to Operation Waterloo in Al Aramagh or whatever its name is, it involved PWRR and their support, think it was Queens Dragoon Guards, anyway, British battlegroup went into town and just sat there, the Mehdi Army (OMS) for the region went nuts and human-waved our lads, needless to say the OMS was decimated.

But I digress.

Either way Tanks are a slave to the fuel/ammo truck, without siginficant backup - that even the most blinkered intelligent service would be hard pressed to miss - they would rapidly run out of ammunition and fuel, one big battle in SB requires at least one Ammo truck.

Coming back to the intelligence services, I think they might have something to say about a terrorist organisation aquiring Main Battle Tanks, assuming they haven't already squashed them for blowing up buildings, infrastructure and stuff.

[Furia]

No matter how much I like tanks, as helo pilot, I have to tell you that unless tanks have appropiate air cover that is air superiority or they control a sophisticated networked air defence system like modern armies do, or their life expectancy on the battlefield would be counted in minutes rather than hours.

Since you could not expect terrorists to steal as well a fighter squadron or a complex mobile air defence system and know how to operate such, I would not give a dime for an armoured terrorist no matter he is riding on a Leo 2E, Challenger, Le Clerc or Abrams. He would be toasted long before he could figure out how to lock the turret hatch. :debile2:

[FletchRDG]

very true lol still they're slippery buggers, Im sorry for the stupid idea but you know its a question worth askin. If you dont ask you wont know as they say and slightly off subject.

can i ask if anyone watched this programme on BBC called "Fighting Passions"? it was about men joining the army and then being sent into a warzone. killing for the 1st time and the "blood lust" of it and wanting to do it again. Also showing the other side of it. it was a Documentry.

[IrishHussar]

Ref the TV programme its worth watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yze5a9dY9o

Irish

[FletchRDG]

it was a really good documentry, im not gonna ruin it, ill let people watch it 1st it is a good watch. and that Professor Joanna Bourkes theories are crap.