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3rd Reich - alternate history skins


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I saw an interesting movie the other day, called "Fatherland":

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109779/

" "Fatherland" shows a world where Nazi Germany won the Second World War after repulsing the Allied invasion at Normandy. Now, in the 1960's, Germany continues to fight a bitter guerilla war with the Soviet Union and desperately needs an alliance with the United States in order to finally beat Stalin's war machine." - I think it's pretty interesting plot, and although its been developed for TV, acting and the whole scenery is pretty good, all in all worthwhile to watch.

Now the reason I've posted it up in the mods section is the idea of an 'alternate Cold War' with 3rd Reich vs Soviet union in the 60's. Was wondering how a Nazi Leopard1 would have looked like in the 60's with the swatsika on it, and having the camo pattern retained from WW2. I might gonna try to do some skins like this, but maybe I can wake up some interest in some of the skinners here ;)

PS: before you jump on me, I'm no Nazi or whatever - so don't take this thread as an adoring for Nazism or anything - I just kinda found the idea interesting.

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:biggrin:

i started on a package of Leo2A4 decals in Wehrmacht markings as soon as 4.60 was released. i think i have just about every panzer division represented. i purposely tried to avoid using Waffen SS Panzer units though so as to not offend anyone. but, that's pretty tough since some of those units had some pretty cool markings. what would you all think about something like this? it's the only reason i haven't finished them out and released them. hell, i started them before i moved on to the Bundeswehr packs. if you all think it doesn't misrepresent us, i'll finish them out and release them. hell, when i saw Maj Fubar's skin, i was REALLY tempted to just finish them. they would look good on that ambush camo ;)

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:biggrin:

i started on a package of Leo2A4 decals in Wehrmacht markings as soon as 4.60 was released. i think i have just about every panzer division represented. i purposely tried to avoid using Waffen SS Panzer units though so as to not offend anyone. but, that's pretty tough since some of those units had some pretty cool markings. what would you all think about something like this? it's the only reason i haven't finished them out and released them.

I'd say bring it on.

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i have no intention of using schwastikas due to German law. Lots of other units out there.

besides, i can only think of it being regularly used on Arfrikan Korps units or a flag drapped across the deck for ID from the air.

thoughts?

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I'd say bring it on.
i have no intention of using schwastikas due to German law. Lots of other units out there.

besides, i can only think of it being regularly used on Arfrikan Korps units or a flag drapped across the deck for ID from the air.

thoughts?

I think some of the SS symbols are covered under that, but I'm neither an expert on German law nor WWII insignia, so eh.

I think a Leo with a Zimmerit effect would be cool.

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as for SS units, i would think Germany would be better at differentiating between the Waffen SS and the SS or the SS Einsatzgruppen than many other nations. can any Germans please chime in regarding the law and your opinion?

Bartleby (great name by the way, seen the movie?) have you downloaded Maj Fubar's Leo2A4 in ambush livery? it's pretty good.

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oh geewiz Eisenschwein! i cannot believe some would think the Wehrmacht should be sanctioned and criminalized like the natzi party and its organs. apples and oranges in my opinion.

thank you for the input Eisenschwein! SS is out then...

oh one more: does that include images associated with the Waffen SS that do not actually show the lightening bolts or a schwastika? like the das reich crest or the frundsburg crest?

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Haha, we lost the war.

So everything comes around with SS is out of Law....

and we have a lot of liberal people who states Wehrmacht is criminal too.

Thats modern Germany!

Yep...that's true...same for Austria...

...people think that Waffen-SS = SS = criminal organisation...

And it's pretty dangerous to talk about this stuff too...a lot of my friends were thinking I'm a Nazi just because I was interested in the WWII Military...

About the symbols:

I think that, if there are no Swastika or Lightning bolts it will be no problem...just be careful with the "LAH"...everything with "AH" could also be trouble in German/Austrian Law...

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...

About the symbols:

I think that, if there are no Swastika or Lightning bolts it will be no problem...just be careful with the "LAH"...everything with "AH" could also be trouble in German/Austrian Law...

copy that KAreil. I completely understand what the LAH and AH mean... okay, well that helps open things up a bit. lots of Waffen SS units did not have references to the SS with lightening bolts or schwastikas (or the little cross in a circle -- basically the same as a schwaskita). thank you all for your input. i appreciate it.

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copy that KAreil. I completely understand what the LAH and AH mean... okay, well that helps open things up a bit. lots of Waffen SS units did not have references to the SS with lightening bolts or schwastikas (or the little cross in a circle -- basically the same as a schwaskita). thank you all for your input. i appreciate it.
That might be true, but there are still insignia to avoid, like that of the 7th and 23rd Waffen SS Divisions, as the rune used is used by neo-Nazis today. Same goes for the 12th Waffen SS (Hitlerjugend) owing to the Hitlerjugend single Sig lightning bolt. The insignia of the 27th is also a bad idea, owing to its unusual three spoke swastika in a circle. And a definite no-no is the insignia of the 18th Waffen SS owing to the unit name; look it up, you'll see what I mean.

On the other hand, I expect the insignia of the 38th, 17th, 15th, 31st, and 19th to look quite sharp.

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i saw "Fatherland" when it was aired, but not since. you made me watch it again Daskal. thank you; very good movie.

Try and find the radio play (with Anton Lesser), it captures a lot of the subtulty that was lost in the movie.

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thanks Lieste. i listened to it last night. very good. in fact, very different from the movie -- the father/son relationship, the way it ends, as well as many minor details.

i highly recommend it. however, i rarely listen to stories, so it was a bit weird. i normally read or watch the movie. preferably, i read. after the movie, and the radio play, i don't think i'll bother with the book ;)

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Personally I'm not a big fan of all this; I joined Al for modern tanks specifically to avoid the old Nazi crap and the lack of ability of people to differentiate between military and political elements. And in all fairness, it is impossible to separate the Wehrmacht from the political goals of WW2; its leaders let it willingly be turned into an instrument of an unlawful war of conquest and genocide. The individual soldier may have found himself in events bigger than him, and in a dilemma akin to a greek tragedy where no matter what he could't get away with clean hands, one way or the other. But the theory that there were the honorable guys from the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS and then the evil brownshirts that committed all the crimes doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Wehrmacht soldiers did commit war crimes and atrocities even though some people are still in denial about it. Some Wehrmacht units occasionally helped the SS Einsatzgruppen in mass executions. That doesn't mean that every Wehrmacht soldier was a criminal but it's not always easy to figure out the full picture. The Wehrmacht was an occupational army in many European countries, and even where it didn't commit outright crimes it still didn't make friends. It's a part of our national heritage, we have to accept that (and I think that Germany today to a large extent does).

But no matter what, it remains a difficult topic - maybe comparable to selling a first person shooter with the Boer War as the setting, or the settling of the US as a strategy game where the player is encouraged to import slaves, and apply all means of policy, tactics, and dirty tricks to overcome the resistance of the pesky natives in order to establish new farms and towns.

Were the majority of settlers good people? Sure. Were there criminals and crooks, and would the policy of those days find approvale in the UN today? Undoubtedly not.

I'm not saying that a game must always present morally perfect positions to the player. In fact, how would the player have a choice to do good if denied the option to do bad? But personally I hope you will excuse me if I stay away from the topic, and say that I would rather want to avoid being associated with Nazism even by those who aren't educated enough to differentiate.

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thank you for your input Ssnake. i was waiting for the opinion of the Germans who participate in our honorable quest for the_List as well as yours. the reasons you stated are why i have not released any of these publicly. and with that, i'm not going to. ;)

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