Request for a British Army Mod

[TankHunter]

ok,so there is 'dorchester' and 'chobham',big deal.This is a computerised simulator,so to get the Challenger II on here,just agree to use the same armour charicteristics as the armour on the M1A2 used on this simulator and get it up and running on here.

Oi, hugh. Pro PE doesn't have the M1A2. It has the M1A1HA IIRC (you got Pro PE, yes?). People whine enough as it is about the armor of that thing. Slapping the same kind of armor characteristics that the Abrams has onto a Chally model would not only piss off the Challenger 2 fans, but also make Nils look like a complete and utter dope for trying to pass that off as a Challenger 2. It would also destroy eSims credibility as a serious game producer, and risk any future deals with world militaries due to the previously mentioned reasons.

I would place bets that Nils will not do that unless he has fairly good info for the armor on the Chally2, or if eSim ever ends up releasing SB2 (which I hear from a very good source called Lucifer (among other names) that it will happen when snow falls in hell. But it did snow in Baghdad recently, so maybe the time will come for it to be released within our lifetime).

[FletchRDG]

QUOTE]originally posted by: dejawolf

photographs invariably add perspective, which yes, distorts the image.

to make it worse, each camera distorts the image in its own way. i need orthographic drawings.

Deja, if u want more line drawings of that challenger 2 MBT they're under way. the detail is imense that i need to magnify, identify and the draw it the best i can to the tiniest dot, it shall be done. i shall after the hull maybe do the challenger 1 MBT turret too.

[dejawolf]

hum, what do you use for reference in drawing your drawings.

[FletchRDG]

Well i use those orthographic pictures, for reference i use archive/personal pictures. i check the lines and objects with the pictures to see there right, what they are and for detailed reference (ie decals, stickers, flags etc,etc)

i hope that the challenger 2 turret is good enough for you sir.

I passed it on to KingTiger if you ask him for the Chall2_turret file.

[dejawolf]

well, that all depends on if the original orthographic drawing you based your line drawings off is good i suppose.

[hugh47]

Oi, hugh. Pro PE doesn't have the M1A2. It has the M1A1HA IIRC (you got Pro PE, yes?). People whine enough as it is about the armor of that thing. Slapping the same kind of armor characteristics that the Abrams has onto a Chally model would not only piss off the Challenger 2 fans, but also make Nils look like a complete and utter dope for trying to pass that off as a Challenger 2. It would also destroy eSims credibility as a serious game producer, and risk any future deals with world militaries due to the previously mentioned reasons.

I would place bets that Nils will not do that unless he has fairly good info for the armor on the Chally2, or if eSim ever ends up releasing SB2 (which I hear from a very good source called Lucifer (among other names) that it will happen when snow falls in hell. But it did snow in Baghdad recently, so maybe the time will come for it to be released within our lifetime).

I was trying to make the point that whilst it is correct to accuratly model the projectile defeating qualities of particular armour,I dont think it is neccesary to go into sutch detail,otherwise by the time agreement is made and a working model is on the sim,the tank will be obsolete.

I dont think the British Army would be very comfortable with this simulator being able to accuratly model current tank armour for all the world to play with and test,would'nt it be best to use an approximation and just get it modelled.

There is no good reason for esim to allow use to use Britsh equipment on the simulator at this time,they are a commercial enterprise and will not allow it untill it is financially viable,they did make that point to me and I dont disagree.

[FletchRDG]

well i sent KT an orthographic of the Challenger 2 but it was too small to see detail, so i decided to go over it and then make it bigger to make it easier for you and KT to see. Then i cross check it all with the pics that i have found from other forums and off the web.

the most trouble ill probably have is the hull, theres immense detail in it and then theres add-on armour to then find, get specs and then accurately draw. i wish i kept my instructions from my Chal1 model.

[CharlieB]

It occured to me that we have been around the 3D CR2 model buoy before. There are already 3d models out there as opposed to doing the hard work and this one does look pretty good to me - having actually served on CR2!

http://gunpoint-3d.com/view-Chall2.f.html

I know tat this will not solve the internal issue but...

Ok reality check still required.

[FletchRDG]

well its not that, its just to generate an SB model. even so it gives me something to do. As a graphic designer myself its a good exercise to do as Im tryin to get into University to do a degree in transport design. I eventually want to design Miltary Vehicles, Maybe working for Alvis or BAE land systems.

Doing this will go towards my portfolio. its my ambition to design vehicles for an Army preferably the British.

[Kingtiger]

It occured to me that we have been around the 3D CR2 model buoy before. There are already 3d models out there as opposed to doing the hard work and this one does look pretty good to me - having actually served on CR2!

http://gunpoint-3d.com/view-Chall2.f.html

I know tat this will not solve the internal issue but...

Ok reality check still required.

First of, I would guess thats a 20 000 Poly count model, wich isnt workable for SB, you would have to dumb it down by over half to get it working in SB.

second. look at the TC peri and compare to this pic: http://www.enemyforces.com/tanks/challenger2.jpg

third:

Look at where the gun enters the turret and compare to this

http://chrissmilitaryspot.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/chall21.jpg

fourth:

The exhaust is opend on his model, all uppgraded armour pics in combat ive seen looks like this:

http://chrissmilitaryspot.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/challenger2roadsideied1.jpg

Just the pic above shows its mounted of.

But agreed, its a nice model. but it would be to high poly count for SB and with those errors. One of the bigger challenges (atleast what deja have told me) is to do a nice looking model with about zero in polycount. This guy havent succedded.

But this atleast proofs that there is enough info for a 3D model to be done.

/KT

[CharlieB]

KT I would agree with the first point, but the CPS and the Main Armament look OK to me. You are quite right about the exhaust though. The additional cowels added to the Operational CR2 are to reduce the thermal signiture of the veh. Having the exhaust on the side results in a mass of thermal energy being spouted from the side of the veh. The cowels are designed to push the heat to the rear of the veh and reduce the signature. This would be fitted to vehs in European theatres as well if the need arose.

As far as I am concerned I am happy to continue to use the Leo 2s and not worry about the absence of CR2.

[FletchRDG]

I think everyone should have an oppotunity to be able to use their countries tanks. Especially training, it can prove more then useful recognising enemy tanks.

[dejawolf]

First of, I would guess thats a 20 000 Poly count model, wich isnt workable for SB, you would have to dumb it down by over half to get it working in SB.

/KT

looks more like a 200 000 poly model to me. each of those sprocket wheels alone would be around 20 000 polygons.

http://data.primeportal.net/tanks/david_hale/challenger2/Challenger%202.JPG

continuing on with the "whats wrong with this challenger model"

the armour on the side hull is too low, it should be approximately 20cm higher,

the rear stowage bins has the wrong shape,

oh, and its missing the fire extinguishers above the front idlers,

the front headlights are too far apart, the radio antenna base has the wrong shape,

the whole rear roof is the wrong shape, way too flat, it angles off at the sides there.

and the thermal shroud on the gun is wrong.

oh and yeah, its very right that this won't be the first CR model, not even the first one featured in a game, as theres probably 2-3 different challengers for operation flashpoint,

and this one:

for BF2 "reality mod"

[daskal]

Hmm... I might going to have a look at Battlefield 2 after all

[FletchRDG]

its well worth a look Deja. if you manage to get the models all you'd only have to do is alter a few things and then thats it 3D model completed.still ill try and look into that Applied Armour for you, i do believe the "block" armour is called TUSK armour. ill see what i can dig up in it and ill get back to you all.

[dejawolf]

its well worth a look Deja. if you manage to get the models all you'd only have to do is alter a few things and then thats it 3D model completed.still ill try and look into that Applied Armour for you, i do believe the "block" armour is called TUSK armour. ill see what i can dig up in it and ill get back to you all.

no, thats not how it works.

i'd essentially have to remake the whole model, as 290 000 polygons would have to be removed. and as there is errors in the model already, i'd have to fix those along the way(if i don't i'll have endless sleepless nights)

and then i'd have to create a UVmap from scratch, which is 1/3rd of the process.

and along the way create a new texture map too (all those small details? those are actually modeled on a highpoly model, instead of textured)

[FletchRDG]

true, theres only minor errors though.

[Kingtiger]

true, theres only minor errors though.

Its not the errors that is the problem. its that he would almost have to redo the whole model all over, wich might take ewen longer time then just building it himself.

[fidelthefallguy]

QUESTION... If someone made a C2 model that would be usable in SBPPE and came up with an accurate ballistics set for it. Would there be any chance in hell that it could be added to the game? coz if so them I'm willing to make the model if it means I can play it in game. I'm not to bad with Maya and Max. If not why do we all keep dreaming of the un-attainable?

[Sean]

Theres a few year backlog of artwork, models, and new vehicles in the pipeline. No one could make any promises about it being in the game any time soon.

[TankHunter]

How would you get the accurate armor data? I would not be shocked if the Brits would protect that info like a Nun would protect her virginity.

[fidelthefallguy]

ok...should of said "relatively accurate". At lot can be deduced from information found around the net I think if some of us put our minds to it we could come up with something playable. but that said its pointless to worry about it if its not going to get added to the game is it?

[FletchRDG]

well I i dont think its a dream, its do-able but as Sean has said. there is a number of things that are to be done before the British Armour can even be thought about.

Im willing to wait for this package, when i get the SBPP package it will be the 1st thing Ill load up.

And everyone on this thread has added alot of info, passed it on to the chaps doing the model as we speak, even though its a slow process. If we keep on adding the info, build it all up abit then im sure we can achieve it.

[fidelthefallguy]

I'm willing to wait too, I guess with SBPPE in its current form there is not much else the an eager moder can do. But if me spending all my free time for a few months researching and building a model could result it some British units showing face a bit sooner I'm willing to go for it. My biggest wish for SB is the ability to add new units. even if I have to hack the game and replace the bushmaster with a model of a Warrior AFV. One day I'll figure it out or eSims will see the light or I die waiting :1:

[FletchRDG]

haha:) i know mate. i had steel beasts gold edition but i accidentally sat on the disc and broke it, i cried lol. from that though i just thought why not add the British Army into the game, just to pay homage to those still serving. they'd benefit from it more. not only that its so addictive lol im hooked.