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Marder IFV


Scrapper_511

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The German Marder IFV looks very contemporary next to new IFVs (like Bradley and Warrior) so I was surprised when I read that they were developed in the sixties and delivered in seventy (Jane's mini recognition guide)!

Just curious, how effective is the Marder today (they don't seem to last long in my custom scens in SBProPE)? Are they well liked by the Germans? Is a replacement forthcoming?

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They are scheduled to be replaced by the Puma. The main problem of the Marder is its weak firepower (20mm AP and HE, plus a clunky Milan adaptor on the commander's hatch), and engine and drivetrain are at their limits as well (plus, no air conditioning, just a heater, which is exactly what you need in Afghanistan). While the nominal top speed is 65km/h the reality is that the various armor upgrades since 1975 have gradually reduced this to be now around 50km/h tops, which probably means 30...40km/h in hot climates with thin air (like, well, Afghanistan).

Finally, whicle the frontal protection is darn good, the flanks are in dire need of some RPG proofing which cannot be realized on the current frame. In short, it's time for new kit.

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With the Marder the Germans had the first true Western IFV, and it stands out as the first of its kind. If the wall had not fallen in 89 we might have seen Marder 1 equipped with new 30mm turrets and new engines along the new and mighty Marder 2. However after the Cold War ended no interest was spent on upgrading the firepower of the Marder. Only after the Balkans missions some got a Mine-protection upgrade. At MLC42, they are way over the Marders automotive capabilities. It really is time for the Puma to enter service. However after nearly 40 years of service one is certain to say that the Marder was a great leap as workhorse for the Panzergrenadiere.

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Really? I thought it was huuuge...

First (metric) dimensions found on web:

M3A3 (BFIST) Height 3.0 m, Length 6.5 m, Width 3.2 m, Max Weight 27,216 kg

Marder 1A3 Height 3.015 m, Length 6.88 m, Width 3.38 m, Max Weight 35,000 kg approx

PUMA (Level C) Height 3.1m, Length 7.4 m, Width 3.7 m, Max weight 43,000 kg approx.

A vehicle that is larger than an M2 or Marder in all dimensions can hardly be described as 'small'.

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Any time estimates for when the Puma will start replacing the Marder (if it isn't in the process already)?

The first vehicle has been presented to the Minister of Defense, officially it's supposed to be actually delivered in 2010, and there still are a fair share of wrinkles to be ironed out. 2012 is probably a realistic earliest date of operational deployment unless the Bundeswehr is holding it back from Afghanistan because it's "too new and untested" :biggrin:

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I was surprised when I read that the PUMAs machinegun is a 5.56mm HK MG4.

How will it perform over ranges of 400m compared to a 7.62mm?

Worse.

The reason for this simply was that an MG3 simply couldn't have been fitted into the turret, so the turret would have had to be made bigger which would incur a weight growth and maybe even create a problem with the loading dimensions for the A400M and/or rail transport.

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Worse.

The reason for this simply was that an MG3 simply couldn't have been fitted into the turret, so the turret would have had to be made bigger which would incur a weight growth and maybe even create a problem with the loading dimensions for the A400M and/or rail transport.

Really? I read that it could accept the MG3. Well, that's Wikipedia for you!

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Additional arguments brought forward to justify the decision was that a 5.56mm MG will not require barrel changes even with sustained fire for extended periods, and that more ammo could be stowed of course. But I think that the space restrictions were the most compelling argument actually, and that they may eventually come to regret the decision to go 5.56.

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