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Infantry vs their own equipment?


LtGeorge

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I tried searching previous threads for this and didn't find anything, so point me if I missed it.

I noticed lately when testing an ATGM team that they tend to self-destruct. I think what I'm seeing is that at the moment the soldier fires the missile, the missile is considered to have hit the soldier who fired it, or maybe hit the launcher unit (which is another point - why doesn't the missile come out of their nice shiny new launcher instead of re-using the RPG firing sprite?).

My test was basically a Javelin team on a hill with three blind BMPs 1.5 km in front of them, and I would say about 25% of the time, the ATGM self-destructed.

Anybody see this before?

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Hmm - the team still blows up every time they try to fire when I try it. The AAR always lists the team has having been hit by HE, but in this case the HE was their own exploding missile.

My worst fear is that the bug is machine-dependent - I was hoping that wasn't the case.

Let me see if RPGs have the same effect...

56e83c64837d1_InfHvyWpsTes-S_zip.ea438f0

Inf Hvy Wps Tes -S.zip

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I think I figured it out. I decided to find out if the wire missiles also had the same problem, and they did not. Only the Javelin exhibited the problem, and upon looking closer, I found out that what was happening was that the missile was hitting the ground about 2-3 m in front of the launcher, thereby blowing up the team.

Then I remembered that the game's Hellfire has the same engine as the Javelin so I loaded up a Tiger in the same scenario. Exact same problem - the missile promptly flies straight into the ground. The Tiger fired all eight missiles and all went straight to the ground below it.

I originally did not have this problem, but then about 25% of Javelin shots started doing that, and now it is straight-on 100% of all shots doing this.

Am I taking crazy pills, or has anybody else had this happen?

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I do note that while teams can be given MG and RPG ammunition, they seem reluctant to use these weapons.

I 'overran' each of the wpn team types with a variety of light and heavy armour, and all would sit still doing nothing whatever type of primary weapon they had after expending their main weapon type. This was despite giving them 200/600 of 7.62mm and 1/5 of RPG29/RPG7L etc in addition to their AGL/ATGM weapons. (This combination of available weapons is doctrinal in the Soviet era ATGM sections, which have 3 launchers and 3 LAW for the 3 teams).

Normal infantry is reluctant to use M72 vs the rear armour of T80U as well. M72A1 is used, so it appears to be their pessimism about the anti-armour effect of the M72.

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And while we are at it...

DPHE 40mm grenades are listed as 44-53mm Penetration (not range dependant as MV is very low), but are almost completely ineffective against BMP, which are very vulnerable to 12.7mm HMG (max pen 30-35mm, and reduced by range), and slightly vulnerable to 7.62mm rounds (max pen 10mm)

This isn't just a mix-up with the HE grenades, as these are not used by the AGL team against APC at all...

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LtGeorge:

Downloaded your Inf Hvy Wps Test.zip and tried it and here is what I found though the results don't seem to make much sense to me. I ran these tests in the MISSION EDITOR.

If Time acceleration, F12, is on WHEN THE TEAM FIRES THEIR MISSILE they die every time. I would assume one would use time acceleration to quickly run several trials or to test a long scenario.

If time acceleration is not on when the team fires their missile, the missile was successfully fired every time. You can use the time acceleration IN BETWEEN missile firings and everything works OK.

I moved the missile team to various locations around the map after the start of the scenario and this was the case every time. I ran about 6 trials each way.

Why would time acceleration make a difference? This would have certain implications for people testing their scenarios in the MISSION EDITOR and using Time acceleration to speed through.

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I tried doing permutations of F12, viewing angles, and what-not. When I started after a 10-hour hiatus, the Javelin and Hellfire were working normally, but after a couple plays they would head for the ground. For infantry, the Javelin hits the ground about 3 m in front of the team, close enough to catch the team with HE. For the Tiger and firing at high altitude, the missile seems to take a -60 degree linear beeline to the ground.

I couldn't find a pattern behind it except that when the bug sets in, it seems to stay in force. What causes it to come into play, and what reset it when I resumed testing today, I have yet to figure out. :confused:

But, my main goal was to alert the SB community that something may or may not be up...

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Well, it wouldn't be the first time that time acceleration effects stuff differently. I think that some calculations are simplified with time accel on. In the past it was noticed that units had pathfinding troubles with it on as well.

Not really any way around it other than have the time accel turn off once contact is made but, then again, this is what it does already. I does not turn off when you are *testing* a scenario though so I suspect that this problem was noticed during a test. Continual time accel must be maintained in testing but maybe something can be done to keep both intact.

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Well, it wouldn't be the first time that time acceleration effects stuff differently. I think that some calculations are simplified with time accel on. In the past it was noticed that units had pathfinding troubles with it on as well.

Quite naturally so. I was a really bad student in control theory/control engineering, but even I remember that the time resolution of your control processes depend a lot on the rates by which control inputs can vary to maintain a valid result. Try riding a push bike with a reaction time of a second or more - you simply can't.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I can confirm the F12 phenomenon. Tested with the Javelin, against blind BMP-2s on the flat.ter map, distance of about 1 km.

Shot

I see references in this forum to the use of Javelin ATGWs. I have just obtained my copy of SB Pro PE and I am happily making and playing my own missions. When I adjust the standard inventory of infantry squads under the "options" menu in the Mission Editor, I am presented with a number of choices for ATGWs and RPGs - they do NOT include Javelins. Am I missing something here? Do I need to downlaod a further patch or mod to obtain Javelins?

Thanks.

Mark

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