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Also i was wondering if we will see some weather effects like rain and snow.

Not this time. It isn't particularly high on the army customers' priority list, like night combat. Of course, eventually we will do it anyway. The point is, for instructional purposes restricting visibility usually is not a good idea. It just distracts from the actual lesson that you want to convey. Reduced visibility induces mostly more friction, but typically there's enough friction already in most exercises. The requirement for all-weather capabilities is one of those tick marks on checklists, but when you ask the instructors, the almost unanimous answer is "Oh, we don't do that".

Makes you wonder how it ended up on those checklists in the first place.

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Not this time. It isn't particularly high on the army customers' priority list, like night combat. Of course, eventually we will do it anyway. The point is, for instructional purposes restricting visibility usually is not a good idea. It just distracts from the actual lesson that you want to convey. Reduced visibility induces mostly more friction, but typically there's enough friction already in most exercises. The requirement for all-weather capabilities is one of those tick marks on checklists, but when you ask the instructors, the almost unanimous answer is "Oh, we don't do that".

Makes you wonder how it ended up on those checklists in the first place.

Thats odd! You would think that they would want to train for all weather capabilaties like they do in flight simulators.

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.... Makes you wonder how it ended up on those checklists in the first place.

Mysterious are the ways of our lord... :debile2:

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Thats odd! You would think that they would want to train for all weather capabilaties like they do in flight simulators.

Except of course there's a certain suspension of belief required.

In an aircraft you are isolated from the weather and so a simulator works (you are dry in the cockpit and you are dry in the simulator).

With an AFV if its raining outside then you'll still be getting wet (even if the hatch is closed). If you have the commander's hatch open to help with SA etc, then you are getting wet - which works on a vehicle but not so much while sitting in a classroom.

Spraying water in the room might help with "immersion" but probably doesn't help the computers running the software.

There are some things that simulation is great for and other things that need the "real thing".

Edited by Gibsonm

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Except of course there's a certain suspension of belief required.

In an aircraft you are isolated from the weather and so a simulator works (you are dry in the cockpit and you are dry in the simulator).

With an AFV if its raining outside then you'll still be getting wet (even if the hatch is closed). If you have the commander's hatch open to help with SA etc, then you are getting wet - which works on a vehicle but not so much while sitting in a classroom.

Spraying water in the room might help with "immersion" but probably doesn't help the computers running the software.

There are some things that simulation is great for and other things that need the "real thing".

really how come you get wet even with the hatch closed when its raining?

Regarding weather. If it doesnt have any value having weather in sbp then why did they implement snow? Apart from having an effect on the terrain it is a step in the direction of weather is it not?

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If things go according to plan, you can opt for a purely digital version or have both the download and a DVD. The DVD will contain a few non-essential extras but cost $5.- more for production, shipping & handling.

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really how come you get wet even with the hatch closed when its raining?

Where there's rubberized hatch seals, there's leakage.

That being said, I don't think that immersion or the lack of it is the prime argument for or against weather effects in simulations. A simulation for instructional purposes must, above all, not stand in the way of effectively transporting the lesson. The only lesson that rain, or snow, and darkness teach are that things get more difficult, take longer, and that you feel more miserable. There are very few procedures under these conditions that differ fundamentally from perfect daylight, hence the demand for these conditions is low because, after all, you want to INSTRUCT people and not make a prediction about the outcome of a planned operation.

Regarding weather. If it doesnt have any value having weather in sbp then why did they implement snow? Apart from having an effect on the terrain it is a step in the direction of weather is it not?

Yes, of course it is. But here it doesn't make things more difficult, it just affects mobility and line of sight calculations. The deep snow feature is interesting purely from the tactical point of view and not so much crew procedure training.

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Haven't thought about falling snow or rain but when the day comes that you have time to include them I'll be a happy camper. Hmmm... maybe sandstorms too.

The M113A1 and T-55 and reworked Ural will make a nice addition when it comes to making bush-war scenarios.

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One thing that I would like to ask is how high on the priority list is adding secondary light sources (for example from burning tanks) and adding a sun. The adding of a sun would possibly increase friction for the side that has to look in the direction of it in a dawn or dusk mission.

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I'd like to see point sources for light, but by and large this falls unter the category "beautification". Of course there are exceptional cases where this is not just eye candy but may have a tactical effect. By and large however that is not the case, or only for short periods, unless you are somewhere inside the arctic circle.

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Thats odd! You would think that they would want to train for all weather capabilaties like they do in flight simulators.

He's quite right, though. You lose so many senses in a tank simulator that your 'intuition' of what's going on where, or where you are in relation to anyone else, is completely out the window. It's already an artificial hampering. Even with the ability in simulators like CCTT for the TC to stick his head out the hatch and look around 360 degrees, it takes about half an hour for a platoon to organise itself and get the exercise going. I wouldn't want to think about "Three, go ahead raise and lower your gun tube so I can find you..." trying to be done at night.

NTM

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Where there's rubberized hatch seals, there's leakage.

Well, switch NBC protection ON ;-)

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Yeah G, I was just thinking how leaking water would impress the crew when training for an NBCD environment.

Thats odd! You would think that they would want to train for all weather capabilaties like they do in flight simulators.

I would suggest that weather has much more of an effect on aircraft then it does on tanks. Flights get delayed or cancelled, tankers/troops, well, they just get wet. :)

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I'd like to see point sources for light, but by and large this falls unter the category "beautification". Of course there are exceptional cases where this is not just eye candy but may have a tactical effect. By and large however that is not the case, or only for short periods, unless you are somewhere inside the arctic circle.

I am not looking at it from a eye candy point of view. Implementation of a sun would in theory allow for glare from the sun. Thus generating a new tactical dimension. If the enemy has difficulty seeing you for a period of time (especially if it is an enemy using NVGs) then it could be useful to exploit this. I remember reading about how insurgents in Iraq have exploited such dusk/dawn situations to conduct attacks from out of the sun.

In terms of night combat burning tanks, or even the flash from main guns can be useful in identifying other targets if lacking night vision equipment, one would think. A burning tank may illuminate other enemy vehicles. Firing at night, whether it be by infantry or armor may give away your position.

Both would add potentially interesting tactical situations, especially when using less advanced equipment, such as the Leopard AS1.

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I'm not debating this, but still you have only few minutes on two occasions a day to exploit this, and all it takes to negate this is to move your tank into the shadow that is cast by a tree or so.

Eventually we will get to this, but I can't justify giving it a high priority.

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I'm getting a feeling that there may be a M60 that falls outa' Santa's' bag?

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I'm getting a feeling that there may be a M60 that falls outa' Santa's' bag?

M-60, T-55, BMP-1/2, T-72, M-113, motorized infantry. All we really need for an Iran Iraq war mission :)

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M-60, T-55, BMP-1/2, T-72, M-113, motorized infantry. All we really need for an Iran Iraq war mission :)

And you will fight there in a M-113?

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