Control Yoke: Any Information?

[Quagmire]

They do make left handed joysticks too. For example, http://www.testfreaks.com/blog/review/thrustmaster-t16000m-pc-joystick/

It's funny, I'm left-handed but I couldn't imagine playing with a left-handed joystick after all these years!

I'm so used to using right-handed ones. I play golf right-handed and several other activities, but write and lead with the left.

Q

[CharlieB]

I use one of these and it works fine for me. Plenty of buttons to assign...

http://www.shopwiki.co.uk/thrustmaster+firestorm+dual+analog+3

Edited August 3, 2010 by CharlieB
forgot link

[Quagmire]

Just found this:

http://www.westcontrols.com/files/products_controls2.php?id=CCYOKE&cat=C6YO&type=FY&fr=C

With a bit of a respray and some new decals it could pass as a tank controller. Sort of...

[hawes]

http://www.westcontrols.com/files/products_controls2.php?id=CCYOKE&cat=C6YO&type=FY&fr=C

We'd make something similar and at a similar cost if only we thought we could sell at least 500 units.....

www.afvsim.com

[Quagmire]

http://www.westcontrols.com/files/products_controls2.php?id=CCYOKE&cat=C6YO&type=FY&fr=C

We'd make something similar and at a similar cost if only we thought we could sell at least 500 units.....

www.afvsim.com

Really?

Well, sign me up as your first customer!

[Gibsonm]

The AFVSim stuff is great but they have three major limitations:

1. They aren't readily available to the general public (tends to be sold to Depts of Defence only).

2. They cost a fair bit. I think about AUD$2,000 per handle.

3. They are unit specific. That is want to be an M1 gunner then buy that controller, want to be a M1 commander buy a second controller, want to use the LAV buy a third, etc.

So while authentic to use, you need about 10 (each at the above price) to replicate what you can currently do with a keyboard / mouse or joystick, unless you only ever want to play one crew position on one vehicle.

[Quagmire]

Read Hawes' reply again:

We'd make something similar and at a similar cost if only we thought we could sell at least 500 units.....

There's no reason a more 'game-like' version could not be created for simmers - perhaps with generic buttons for use in all vehicles. A mouse can still be used with it for other functions.

[Gibsonm]

Read Hawes' reply again:

We'd make something similar and at a similar cost if only we thought we could sell at least 500 units.....

There's no reason a more 'game-like' version could not be created for simmers - perhaps with generic buttons for use in all vehicles. A mouse can still be used with it for other functions.

Sure but I suspect you wont find over 500 people all willing to spend over US$600 for something to control their US$125 sim with.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Gibsonm
Checked the link from home and could remove the proviso.

[Quagmire]

Sure but I suspect you wont find over 500 people all willing to spend over US$600* for something to control their US$125 sim with.

If the controller was made more widely available, and not just for SB Pro I reckon it would sell.

For example, look at how much some of the flight sim yokes and controllers cost to play a £35 game like Microsoft FSX.

I know a guy who has already spent close to £700 just to fly a Cessna 'realistically' in the sim - that's equal to more than $1,500. It's no different really.

If they were made available people will buy them, especially if they want to take a step closer to realism as is the case with flight sims.

[Gibsonm]

Well Good Luck.

But I maybe biased as I can always go into the compound and use my 1:1 scale replica.

[Retro]

I'd looove to have a CV90/35 handle replica (soo much better to handle than mouse+keyboard) but I'd probably not shell out more that 80€ for it..

[Quagmire]

Well Good Luck.

But I maybe biased as I can always go into the compound and use my 1:1 scale replica.

[Tacbat]

Something generic with a bunch of buttons, 4-way hats and POV's would be interesting.

[Quagmire]

Something generic with a bunch of buttons, 4-way hats and POV's would be interesting.

Exactly. Something with the rotating handgrip controls with a 4-way hat on each one, trigger and thumb buttons and perhaps a series of buttons on the faceplate that could be programmed like Saitek and CH sticks.

I would be more than happy with this. The fact something like it isn't available yet means this could be big in the market especially with arcade players etc. - just look at the interest in the Star Wars controllers. Imagine having a similar controller compatible with various game genres.

Quagmire

[cj95]

What games specifically...other than the old old star wars game could it be used for?

The reason flight simmers pay so much is that they want something 'exactly' like the real thing....not a semi-tank knockoff.

While a cool idea i cant think of any game other than SB that would use such a controller.

[digital_steve]

http://www.westcontrols.com/files/products_controls2.php?id=CCYOKE&cat=C6YO&type=FY&fr=C

We'd make something similar and at a similar cost if only we thought we could sell at least 500 units.....

www.afvsim.com

I'd still love to know what that CH MFP/DX1 is controlling in the picture on your main page...

[Ssnake]

Judging by the uniform and the control handle, it strongly suggests CV90/40 to me.

[digital_steve]

lol thanks mate

i did mean what actual functions it's mapped too

[pawade]

I'm in the process of making a star wars yoke for Sb out of common commercial parts, will decribe how it works when completed.

[Quagmire]

I'm in the process of making a star wars yoke for Sb out of common commercial parts, will decribe how it works when completed.

Sounds cool! Is this being made to a set of available plans, or something you have designed yourself?

Q

[Hackworth]

I'm sorry, but these control handles (by AFV Sim Ltd.) are not for sale to the general public. Not only is the price "consumer-prohibitive" (around 3,000.- per piece), it's especially all the red tape associated with foreign exports as the British government considers them war materiel (ridiculous as it sounds, it's true).

this product needs competition to drive the price down (one company has a niche on it). in addition, dealing with restrictive trade rules (in this case via the MoD) would drive prices. anyone want to start a company in Taiwan and start making these for us? i'll place my order as soon as the price is reasonable. and i'll take one of each type... :biggrin:

otherwise, we'll all just have to make our own. a hobby i never anticipated having interest in...

[Gibsonm]

Yes but while the cost maybe "consumer-phobitive" its certainly "Government-friendly" when compared to the dedicated, ISO container sized, multi tens / hundred thousand dollar, simulators provided by the vehicle builders.

A room of PC's, these controllers, litepro, sound system, etc can train a Sqn / Coy of crews for about the same price as a dedicated simulator that trains a single crew station.

[Ssnake]

It's not a case of a supplier exerting a monopoly. In fact, AFV Sim is the one company that brings down the prices. Other suppliers typically charge three times as much. As a matter of fact, these handles are about as cheap as one can make them (without losing money on them, mind you. It still must be a viable business) with the selected production method - in this case, small series CNC milling from aluminum; the softest and lightest CNC milling material to minimize production time, easy to handle, and a CNC mill for small series ranging from half a dozen to several dozen copies.

What you have in mind - a plastic hand grip similar to a control yoke or a steering wheel controller - requires the production of plastic injection moulds. These moulds are super-expensive. Of course, once that you make several thousand parts from such a mould the costs per piece are small, so you can afford to sell it at a consumer price and still make a profit.

This however assumes that you can sell at least 5,000 copies of a single type control handle replica, and that's just not bloody likely. For example, about 7,000 M1s and maybe 3,500 Leopard 2s have ever been produced. Assuming that the US Army adopted some sort of a gunnery desktop trainer for every tank that was ever made, you could hope to sell the needed number of control handles - except that this is never going to happen. At best you could hope to sell maybe 10 units for every 50 tanks, so that's less than 1,400 units (and that's under the most optimistic assumption of some sort of a mega-deal with the US Army).

Nu-uh. Not gonna happen. So you need to sell it to tank enthusiasts. It might work if every SB Pro PE customer would buy one M1 gunnery handle AND the US Army in addition to that, and how likely is that?

Seriously. This is industrial production 101, I studied that stuff for several years (and what for, I might add). This really is as cheap as it gets, for the number of units that one can realistically expect to sell.

The only alternative are hobby conversions. Of course at that point we're leaving the realm of profit-oriented business production and instead rely on irrational decision-making (a.k.a. "a passion for tanks"). You may only spend $100.- or less in actual cash on materials, but that's your final price only because you ignore the hundreds of man-hours that you will put into such a project to yield you one single copy. An impressive monument of your dedication to the subject matter, and a focal point of envy for all your tank geek friends. That might be justification alone to do it, don't get me wrong. But it is actually a form of subsidy, so that the cash-flow relevant expense is not representing the true costs of such a control handle.

If you would honestly count the hours that you would put into such a project and levy minimum wage costs on every hour I bet you will end up with opportunity costs in excess of those 3,000.- for one AFV Sim controller.

[Smitty]

I am trying to build one.I started with the star wars sight to get some ideals.

The spring in this one is to loose.I ben changing springs tofind out which one is better.Will not return to center the way I want.

[MacGyver]

I used a CH flight yoke for a long time with SB1 back in the day. Tracking in traverse was far superior to any joystick I've used in the past, however the push/pull elevation adjustment made the whole thing slightly impractical. As tested in multiplayer it gave me a decent advantage in long range gunnery, but was slower to get on target up close in a snap shot situation (due to the awkward X and Y axis transition). This might not be an inherent design flaw in all flight yokes, but rather a result of the sticky Y-axis as found on the CH yoke.

Eventually it convinced me to get a Star Wars flight yoke and I even managed to Franken-wire it to a Microsoft USB game pad, but the whole project first got put on hold and then completely shelved due to other commitments. I ended up selling the whole thing on ebay a couple of years ago but wouldn't mind giving it another go if someone finds a workable, reliable solution.