Throwing in the towel.

[Apocalypse 31]

Well thats it for me folks. Been supporting this sim for a few years, but I think my time is done here.

Its been enjoyable, but in the end technology has once again ruined a good time for me.

My router will not let me port foward anymore..in fact, wont let me do much through my online settings.

Not to mention that I think $25 for this addon was a bit steep, where it didnt include much as far as playable vehicles.

Looking back, there were good times with this game.

The Pros:

-This was finally a good armor sim/game with an online community.

-Map Editor is easy to use

-Mission editor is probably the best I've used in any game (and I've played alot) makes scripting beyond EASY to do and custom missions can be knocked out and played online with ease.

The Cons:

-Its 2010, can we please have 3-d infantry?

-eSim has made it blatantly clear that they dont listen to their customers on these forums, just the National Armies dishing out cash for licensing. I always thought this was unfortunte and alot could've been gained by introducing new content more rapidly...its purely business. I get it.

[Volcano]

OK. Thanks for letting everyone know, I guess. Its never good to see someone go, but everyone has their own reasons on why they stay and why they leave.

[OnAlienware]

I hope you'll keep faith. For all my wants, the fact that Nils maintains contact with the community gives me hope. Imagine depending on Ubisoft... These guys deserve our support.

[Guest HAVOC131]

My router will not let me port foward anymore..in fact, wont let me do much through my online settings.

I have a working wired Linksys router you can have for free just tell me when you want it.

[Skybird03]

-eSim has made it blatantly clear that they dont listen to their customers on these forums, just the National Armies dishing out cash for licensing. I always thought this was unfortunte and alot could've been gained by introducing new content more rapidly...its purely business. I get it.

You are unfair.

eSim never has hidden that their primary customer is the military, and that the release for the public is just kind of a "side-effect" that was not even planned for from beginning on. It has been mentioned many times - by them, by other people, in this and other forums, in reviews, since 4 years. If you think that that was "unfortunate", then the mistake lies with you. Just to point fingers at them for not being a big game company, is a bit cheap, imo. BTW, despite their limited personnel resources and main focus on the military, they run a first class, quick-reaction support in this forum since years, and they have thrown in quite some details by demand of the gaming community - and I cannot imagine that that payed off for them in additional big income: they probably could have done without these kind of "complications". And the first upgrades there were - were free, for three years. So while you are right in claiming that it is about business - of course it is, else they would die by starvation - they nevertheless have repeatedly used some of their limited ressources to adress things wanted by the gamers.

Of course you can play or stop playing the sim, just as you wish. But if you go public, then at least one can demand that you do them a bit more justice and be fair, instead of making them look like ignorrants ripping off gamers misled by false advertising. An unfair, pathetic complaint like this, made on basis of ignoring a reality that never was hidden and has been so since Spring 2006, is just cheap. With that, while maybe you will not miss playing SBP, you won't be missed in return, too.

[DarkLabor]

Well thats it for me folks. Been supporting this sim for a few years, but I think my time is done here.

Its been enjoyable, but in the end technology has once again ruined a good time for me.

My router will not let me port foward anymore..in fact, wont let me do much through my online settings.

Not to mention that I think $25 for this addon was a bit steep, where it didnt include much as far as playable vehicles.

Looking back, there were good times with this game.

The Pros:

-This was finally a good armor sim/game with an online community.

-Map Editor is easy to use

-Mission editor is probably the best I've used in any game (and I've played alot) makes scripting beyond EASY to do and custom missions can be knocked out and played online with ease.

The Cons:

-Its 2010, can we please have 3-d infantry?

-eSim has made it blatantly clear that they dont listen to their customers on these forums, just the National Armies dishing out cash for licensing. I always thought this was unfortunte and alot could've been gained by introducing new content more rapidly...its purely business. I get it.

Pros:

-They're introducing urban elements for urban warfare (including remotely operated weapons).

-New vehicules are damn good looking.

-Even if we are not the main customers, they consider us very nicely by doing stuff for us.

Cons:

Yeah the software isn't eye candy but it's question of time (futur upgrades/SB3, who knows?).

[Grenny]

@Apokalypse,

Sorry to hear that. May be you'll get some withdrawl symptoms and come back later.

Members leaving is allways a loss, esp. the one with IRL experince as they enrich the sim significantly.

Anyway, bye 8-)

Grenny

out

[daskal]

Sorry to hear that. But what's throwing in the towel mean? Are you going to burn the cd + codemeter thingie?

Just lay SB on the shelf for a while & see if you are going to feel like playing it again in the future.

[sabot_ready]

How much is your copy for sale for?

[Ssnake]

Thanks for the compliments, and for being our customer, at least for a while - maybe later again, who knows.

The Cons:

-Its 2010, can we please have 3-d infantry?

Yes, in 2011. I wanted to wait with the news until the new patch was ready for release - probably tomorrow - but I guess there isn't much harm in telling it now. We have just hired two additional programmers - Lukas and Christoph - and one of them will exclusively focusing his attention on implementing 3D characters. We will invest a six-digit dollar figure to get 3D characters implemented, so you can rest assured that we are fully committed to this.

-eSim has made it blatantly clear that they dont listen to their customers on these forums,

Well, perception has the power to shape reality, so if it appears to you like that, it is no wonder that you are reacting in the way you do. I would like to point out however that Steel Beasts is under constant development for more than a decade now with COUNTLESS features added on community request. I wonder what other computer game company you are about to find that demonstrates a similar commitment to customer satisfaction with a single title over such a long time. Even if you look at eternal classics like "Civilization" (just released with it's fifth installment, not counting the add-ons and intermediate releases like "Call to Power" that were released in the past fifteen years) - it's been through two or three different publishers and I wonder if there is still a single guy on the team of Civ 5 who was on the original team with Sid Meier. Looking at Civ 4, they released patches for about two years and that was it, then. Yeah, there's still a user forum, yes, publishers and developers occasionally drop by (mostly to promote a new title and eventually also to have a look at user suggestions), but I'm not sure if the overall amount of feature additions and alterations is much higher than what we do with SB Pro ... and they have but a single customer group to which they're catering, and not three or four like us.

I don't think that I have ever made false claims about our priorities. I think I went beyond the minimum to explain why we set our priorities this way. Without armies there would be no SB Pro. The history of SB would have ended with SB Gold ... or maybe some arcade SB2 from a different development team if a publisher had wanted to capitalize on SB1's original popularity and buy the rights from eSim. I can't help it if reality is not matching your expectations, but if eSim Games isn't a profitable business it simply will have to exit the market. That is the grim reality of the capitalist world (I'm not complaining, but I have to accept it as the conditions under which we have to operate). We are already heavily cross-subsidizing development for the gaming community with profits made in the training market. I also fully accept the condition that consumers expect everything (but aren't willing to pay for it).

The US president can give pretty much any order that he wants but even he is bound by natural laws and the laws of financial mathematics. Ordering the army to attack a country is quite possible for him (and with a good chance of success). Ordering the joint chiefs of staff to float under the ceiling of his the oval office is possible as well, but has no chance of success.

What I want to say with that is that you have every right to wish for everything in SB Pro, and to say it loudly and proudly. But it is foolish to believe that eSim Games will act against its own interest (of long-term survival in the market) by abandoning all business reason just to focus exclusively on community demands.

What you can count on however is that eSim Games is not exclusively driven by business logic. Otherwise we wouldn't have released SB Pro PE in the first place, or abandoned it years ago. Part of my motivation is to bring great simulation out of the secretive closet of the armies, to bring great tactical challenges in an entertaining way to the masses (how small they ever may be), to produce immersive mental challenges, and all that for the lowest possible price. Some say that with SB Pro PE consumers are just invited for the ride. That has never been my view. The community does have influence and power on the development. It may not be as large and immediately noticeable, but we haven't forgotten you and we have no intention to do so.

[daskal]

Thanks for the compliments, and for being our customer, at least for a while - maybe later again, who knows.

Yes, in 2011. I wanted to wait with the news until the new patch was ready for release - probably tomorrow - but I guess there isn't much harm in telling it now. We have just hired two additional programmers - Lukas and Christoph - and one of them will exclusively focusing his attention on implementing 3D characters. We will invest a six-digit dollar figure to get 3D characters implemented, so you can rest assured that we are fully committed to this.

This is excellent news!

[Grenny]

Ordering the joint chiefs of staff to float under the ceiling of his the oval office is possible as well, but has no chance of success.

Well then legaly, this is not an order! ;-)

...2. Prüfpunkt beim Befehl: Durchführbarkeit

Maybe the US has different rules...

[Koen]

Wow, well said Nils.

And so glad that Al, Volcano, Deja, you & others have stayed committed to SB for all those years - it's really a labor of love.

Really thx, guys,

And yes excellent news about hiring 2 programmers !

Koen

[Gibsonm]

I wanted to wait with the news until the new patch was ready for release - probably tomorrow - but I guess there isn't much harm in telling it now...

Great News!

Hopefully I can get my copy before going on Ex for 4 weeks tomorrow (02 OCT my time).

[mpow66m]

:drink:@Apokalypse,

''Sorry to hear that. May be you'll get some withdrawl symptoms and come back later.''

@Apok,

Hey man i went through the same thing a few years ago.Sold my copy,and swore off SBPPE fr good.Not from disatifaction but because i saw some much possibilities for the Sim and not seeing it being implemented.Now i realise the are a small house and the Military come first.Np for me.When 2.45 came out i was impressed(not that i wasnt b4) and i bought another copy and the new patch,which is well worth 25.00.Recently my CM Stick got stuck in FUM,Nils told me to send it to him and theyd replace it free.Got it back in two days w/ an extra CD.i WONDER HOW MANY COMPANIES WOULD DO THAT?Hang onto SBPPE,it will grow and in time it will everything everyone has wanted.The fact that they r hiring new programmers is a excellent sign.I was with SB from the very start,i mean the very start.You wont find a better Sim,better supported Sim and yes they do listen to their non mil customers.A few of the changes in SB are things i asked for and got,along with many others by many other people.Esim is a great comp. and they have a bunch of good guys working with them.....thats a rarity in these times.PLUS theyll never screw you over.

[CalAB]

Where do I start. I'm not in the military, never have been and never will. I remember in 1983 being invited down to the Mewata Armory here In Calgary by two close friends [ before the liberal government shut it down and moved it to Edmonton ] who were in the reserves at the time. We were in our late teens/early twenty's and anything that related to armor was like gold to us. These guys brought me into the building and showed me a Grizzly. At first I thought it looked cool but then I was invited to climb up on the thing and eventually the told me to get into the TC seat. I remember hand cranks everywhere and a few optical gizmo's but not much more than that. What was clear to me at that time was that this thing was not an M1.

　

What all of this really related to was what was happening in HQ's while my friends were on exercise. Apparently there were tables set up with miniature pieces representing the various sides and each piece was a match for the real thing. If platoon A1 moved 4 kliks south a dude moved a little lead representation of that platoon accordingly on this table. They had trees, rivers, hills and buildings, whatever was out in the field during that exercise was on that table. Everything was laid out as it was known and reported back to HQ and updated constantly as the fog was lifted.

　

Being young gents we adapted that table so that we could conduct war games in my parents basement. Two six foot by two foot tables side by side covered with blankets and littered with rubber shite that looked like trees and tape for roads and rivers with socks underneath the blankets to make hills. These guys had all the data for everything under the sun in regards to how stuff worked. One buddy spent like $1200.00 on the lead miniatures for all of the equipment which he made me paint [bastard-you know who you are Capt Faulty] It was fucking awesome. There are times that I wish I could go back to those days just for a visit. Smoking a big dube, putting the battalions together, setting the limits and getting out the dice and tape measures, sacrificing my team mate's stuff so I could bring my 120's and arty to bear...sweet moments.

You may be wondering what in hell my little story has to do with Apocalypse 31 throwing in the towel. In 1983 I could only dream of something like Pro PE. But all that this Sim is, it's exactly what we dreamed of way back then; a computer Sim that represented real life equipment and how it worked with real life tactics and a real environment that dictated how the contest would play out. Those old pieces were the grizzly, Pro PE is the M1 and the map/mission editor is the tables.

I bet that there are a lot of game companies out there that would give just about anything to have eSims data in place of eye candy. You go get your 3d guys brutha, I'll hang here wit my Leo2A6 and the old guard.

[Hedgehog]

I bet that there are a lot of game companies out there that would give just about anything to have eSims data in place of eye candy. You go get your 3d guys brutha, I'll hang here wit my Leo2A6 and the old guard.

Indeed, sir.

**Mounts up**

Thanks for the compliments, and for being our customer, at least for a while - maybe later again, who knows.

Yes, in 2011. I wanted to wait with the news until the new patch was ready for release - probably tomorrow - but I guess there isn't much harm in telling it now. We have just hired two additional programmers - Lukas and Christoph - and one of them will exclusively focusing his attention on implementing 3D characters. We will invest a six-digit dollar figure to get 3D characters implemented, so you can rest assured that we are fully committed to this.

So, Dr Delaney bit the bullet and implemented code control, eh?

Cool beans, Regards to the FNGs

Gentlemen I feel that 3D infantry, is the first of many big things in SB.

[whisper]Maybe even playable opfor vehicles.[/whisper]

:sonic:

[Stratos]

Hope 3d Characters want to say some good looking 3d commanders looking trough the hatches, M113 and Humvee gunners...

[Grenny]

Nah...first thing should be 3rd party implementation.(cars, truck and civies)

This will realy open up a whole new level of the sim...and WILL attrackt new mil. customers.

[Gibsonm]

Nah...first thing should be 3rd party implementation.(cars, truck and civies)

This will realy open up a whole new level of the sim...and WILL attrackt new mil. customers.

Yep 3D Infantry will keep my grunt colleagues happy.

Multi sided (NGO’s, Civilians, etc.) will certainly make its employment with us more varied.

[Txema]

And while we are speaking about aesthetical issues (3-D infantry), please do not forget to add shadows to the simulator !!!

A lot of the models in SB and the scenery look very good indeed, but the lack of shadows is a very big problem for the credibility of the overall image. In Steel Beasts you can get very nice screenshots... provided that the angle of the image or the climatic conditions make the shadows not necessary. If you take a screenshot and the shadows are obviously missing, the image looks clearly fake and it is a pitty because the rest of the elements are properly done...

Summing up: are you going to add shadows to the game soon ??? The whole image would benefit from them sooo much...

Txema

[Gibsonm]

It might look nicer but unless it gives me the ability to teach lessons on concealment then I’m not too fussed (sorry).

While 3D Infantry certainly does make it look nicer, it also make using the product more appealing to Infantry.

At the moment unless they are mech Inf they aren’t too interested (in my experience) although the recent improvements of Infantry modelling have helped erode that disinterest somewhat.

[Retro]

Indeed, sir.

**Mounts up**

So, Dr Delaney bit the bullet and implemented code control, eh?

Cool beans, Regards to the FNGs

Gentlemen I feel that 3D infantry, is the first of many big things in SB.

[whisper]Maybe even playable opfor vehicles.[/whisper]

:sonic:

Who do you call a FNG?

[DarkLabor]

Google is your friend, my friend!

http://www.google.fr/#hl=fr&source=hp&q=fng%27s&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=993b898aa1cbba74

[CalAB]

Who do you call a FNG?

FuckingNew Guy

A dude who fails to post hammered...