ottoramsaig Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 The M60A3 TTS modeled in steel beasts is entirely too slow. The tank is powered by the AVDS 1790-2 similar to the engine in the M88A1. It is true that the tank is not the fastest but moved faster in real life that depicted in the game. The model reacts the same way the tank would with clogged fuel filters. The model seems to idle and not accelerate. I’ve also noticed the sound of air cleaner blower motors that were deleted from the later M60A3 models. Perhaps we should look at retooling this model. After serving on this tank for 12 years I look forward to the day when it can be played internally. I use her as a frontline defensive vehicle. And have noticed that she can stand up to most enemy vehicles with the exception of the newer Soviet type. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 The M60A3 TTS modeled in steel beasts is entirely too slow. The tank is powered by the AVDS 1790-2 similar to the engine in the M88A1. It is true that the tank is not the fastest but moved faster in real life that depicted in the game. The model reacts the same way the tank would with clogged fuel filters. The model seems to idle and not accelerate. I’ve also noticed the sound of air cleaner blower motors that were deleted from the later M60A3 models. Perhaps we should look at retooling this model. After serving on this tank for 12 years I look forward to the day when it can be played internally. I use her as a frontline defensive vehicle. And have noticed that she can stand up to most enemy vehicles with the exception of the newer Soviet type.slow how. slow acceleration, slow top speed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted November 12, 2010 Moderators Share Posted November 12, 2010 All I can tell you is, we used statistical data of weight, horse power, and power to weight ratio. You can't really get those values wrong. However, we will check them again -- it could very well be that the power to weight ratio is off and, if so, then we will fix it in the future.Another thing to keep in mind is that the speed of all vehicles directly depend on the theme applied to the map. In other words, you can put the current M60 on a desert map and it will be reasonably fast, and it will be fast on roads obviously, but if you put it on some spring theme map with slow mobility, then it will naturally be very slow.As far as the sound is concerned, the M60 is a recording of an M60 tank, whether or not it is an M60A1 or and M60A3 I couldn't tell you, but I am pretty sure it was an A3. Still, the sound of an M60 is better (be it an A1 or A3) than say, using the sound of a Leopard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottoramsaig Posted November 13, 2010 Author Share Posted November 13, 2010 All I can tell you is, we used statistical data of weight, horse power, and power to weight ratio. You can't really get those values wrong. However, we will check them again -- it could very well be that the power to weight ratio is off and, if so, then we will fix it in the future.Another thing to keep in mind is that the speed of all vehicles directly depend on the theme applied to the map. In other words, you can put the current M60 on a desert map and it will be reasonably fast, and it will be fast on roads obviously, but if you put it on some spring theme map with slow mobility, then it will naturally be very slow.As far as the sound is concerned, the M60 is a recording of an M60 tank, whether or not it is an M60A1 or and M60A3 I couldn't tell you, but I am pretty sure it was an A3. Still, the sound of an M60 is better (be it an A1 or A3) than say, using the sound of a Leopard.Please understand that the model is great. I wasn't knocking it just giving a suggestion. My M60A3 now located outside the American Legion Post in Barnegat NJ, could reach speeds of up to 28 mph. I was lucky enough to have a stab speed of between 16 to 19 mph. I was also put in charge of a Battalion Maintenance team with 2 M88A1's for a while. Seemed to me they both operated at the same speed. True however that on a good day the M88A1 would out run a 60 due to the greater gear range. The blower motor sound was actually a pass down from the M48A5 to the M60 and later M60A1. I can't tell you how many I have had to change in the past. I really appriciate all the work you folks do. SB Rocks. Gome on US Army buy this sim. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabot_ready Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 I tested running a M60 down a 10K stretch of paved road .It ran it in approximately 15minutes which would work out to 40KPH----> = slightly under 25MPH 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted November 13, 2010 Moderators Share Posted November 13, 2010 (edited) Please understand that the model is great. I wasn't knocking it just giving a suggestion. My M60A3 now located outside the American Legion Post in Barnegat NJ, could reach speeds of up to 28 mph. I was lucky enough to have a stab speed of between 16 to 19 mph. I was also put in charge of a Battalion Maintenance team with 2 M88A1's for a while. Seemed to me they both operated at the same speed. True however that on a good day the M88A1 would out run a 60 due to the greater gear range. The blower motor sound was actually a pass down from the M48A5 to the M60 and later M60A1. I can't tell you how many I have had to change in the past. I really appriciate all the work you folks do. SB Rocks. Gome on US Army buy this sim.Just to follow up:The top speed of the vehicle is set at 48 kph (29.8 mph), and that is from the DoD statistical info, so the speed is fine (as is the weight). However, looking at the values, I see that the hp:ton ratio is indeed a little off (low), so in the future it should be faster since it will be able to accelerate quicker. Thanks. Edited November 13, 2010 by Volcano clarification 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 one important thing to take into consideration is Field of view and depth perception. losing both of those, vehicles will SEEM to drive slower. i was filming while sitting on a BMP-1, and it felt like i was going at a pretty decent pace. however, when i later watched the footage, everything looked like it went at a much slower pace than in real life. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottoramsaig Posted November 13, 2010 Author Share Posted November 13, 2010 Just to follow up:The top speed of the vehicle is set at 48 kph (29.8 mph), and that is from the DoD statistical info, so the speed is fine (as is the weight). However, looking at the values, I see that the hp:ton ratio is indeed a little off (low), so in the future it should be faster since it will be able to accelerate quicker. Thanks.OUTSTANDING! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
congo Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Just to follow up:The top speed of the vehicle is set at 48 kph (29.8 mph), and that is from the DoD statistical info, so the speed is fine (as is the weight). However, looking at the values, I see that the hp:ton ratio is indeed a little off (low), so in the future it should be faster since it will be able to accelerate quicker. Thanks.How does a vehicle being able to accelerate faster translate into a higher speed?If a vehicle has a top speed of 60mph doesnt matter how fast it accelerates up to this speed its top speed is still 60mph. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 How does a vehicle being able to accelerate faster translate into a higher speed?If a vehicle has a top speed of 60mph doesnt matter how fast it accelerates up to this speed its top speed is still 60mph.not everything is a drag race.. you lose speed as you turn, and being able to accelerate faster after turning means your average top speed over time will be higher. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
congo Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 not everything is a drag race.. you lose speed as you turn, and being able to accelerate faster after turning means your average top speed over time will be higher.Deja, Top speed is top speed not an average. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisenschwein Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Sorry congo, but NO !Top speed is what you can run under optimal conditions.Try it with a Fiat 500 on a Field near to you.But we have to have an Eye on the hp to ton ratio effect on different terrains....My loved Leo 1 is to slow on some terrains too, I think ;-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
congo Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 (edited) Sorry congo, but NO !Top speed is what you can run under optimal conditions.Try it with a Fiat 500 on a Field near to you.But we have to have an Eye on the hp to ton ratio effect on different terrains....My loved Leo 1 is to slow on some terrains too, I think ;-)I think you both mean average speed, top speed is top speed, distance between two points and the time it takes to cover it on hard surface. any vehicle will not attain its top speed driving over boggy or rough surfaces. My Fiat has a top speed of 120 KPH but will not acheive that driving in a field. When the manufacturers statistical data says the top speed is 48 mph the top speed of the vehicle is 48mph, if it needs to slow down because of terrain that does not negate its top speed it is still 48mph. Though its average speed over different sorts of terrain will vary. Likewise if two different vehics have a top speed of 48mph but one will accelerate to that speed faster than the other their top speeds are still 48mph. Now terrain dependent operating speed is another matter!! One vehic will accelerate from 0 to 60 in 2 seconds and another will accelerate from 0 to 100 in 30 seconds which one is the faster. BTW both vehicles have a top speed of 120mph Edited November 13, 2010 by congo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngel Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 Consult your Newton.Your body in motion is constantly loosing energy, to drag, friction and its own suspension. You are topping this up with the power you are putting back into it. If the available power to replenish this is too low then you will not attain your full speed. You've got to remember with drag its a curve caused by the V^2 in the equation. as you approach top speed the amount of energy required to change its velocity is a lot higher. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacbat Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 Congo,I'm with you on this one. If vehicle X can do 50 tops, then that's it. It doesn't matter how fast it can accelerate to it. I think what V was saying is that with an update, the M60 will be able to reach it's top speed faster, thereby increasing it's overall average speed slightly, but it will still have the same top speed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
congo Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 Yes Tac, When the M-60,s angle of the dangle and the mass of the ass equals the heat of the meat all will be well! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 this is all semantics. Vman said "the vehicle will be faster" he did not say the top speed will be higher. in simple terms, when two vehicles goes from point A to point B, if vehicle 1 reaches point B before vehicle 2,vehicle 1 is faster than vehicle 2. a vehicle with a high top speed, and high acceleration, will in all cases, always reach point B sooner than a vehicle with the same top speed, but slower acceleration. and therefore a vehicle with higher acceleration, will always be faster than a vehicle with the same top speed, but slower acceleration. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
congo Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 a vehicle with a high top speed, and high acceleration, will in all cases, always reach point B sooner than a vehicle with the same top speed, but slower acceleration. and therefore a vehicle with higher acceleration, will always be faster than a vehicle with the same top speed, but slower acceleration.Yes its all semantics but even this statement does not always hold true, It is only true if there is zero loss from slippage between the driving medium and the surface it is being driven over. Refer to DA,s post above. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 a vehicle with a high top speed, and high acceleration, will in all cases, always reach point B sooner than a vehicle with the same top speed, but slower acceleration. and therefore a vehicle with higher acceleration, will always be faster than a vehicle with the same top speed, but slower acceleration.Yes its all semantics but even this statement does not always hold true, It is only true if there is zero loss from slippage between the driving medium and the surface it is being driven over. Refer to DA,s post above.so your main point was disproven, and you admit it. end of discussion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
congo Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 Hey, You're the one using terminology like average top speed. But because Deja says it it must be true n'est pas!!LMFAO 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted November 14, 2010 Moderators Share Posted November 14, 2010 Not sure what all this is about, but I guess it is a result of me not wording my reply properly:I meant to say that the M60, in the next update, will have better acceleration. This therefore will end up making the M60 "faster" because it will certainly cover more ground, especially over tactical movement which involves a lot of short halts.Having said that, power to weight ratio is *extremely* important in armored vehicles, because it determines if a vehicle might take 15 minutes to accelerate to full speed, as opposed to a similar vehicle with identical "top speed" taking less than a minute to accelerate to full speed. In the case of the former, it may never obtain full/top speed in any practical case, except on a long road march, and in the case of the latter it would be much faster overall, because when doing short movements it would be able to frequently obtain higher speeds.Sometimes things are typed in haste and should not be taken literally. Everyone is right! :remybussi: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Hey, You're the one using terminology like average top speed. But because Deja says it it must be true n'est pas!!LMFAOcorrect term was average speed. happy now?and in which way exactly does this change the main point? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacbat Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Everyone is right! :remybussi: Yeah, we're all winners! When the M-60,s angle of the dangle and the mass of the ass equals the heat of the meat all will be well! You do have a way with them words. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
congo Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 correct term was average speed. happy now?and in which way exactly does this change the main point?Did I ever say I was unhappy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted November 15, 2010 Share Posted November 15, 2010 Did I ever say I was unhappy?making a big deal out of something usually means you are unhappy about something. the other option is that you're just trolling. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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