Wargame of operational scope

[Companion]

Looking for a good game of operational scope.

I'm currently hesitating between TOAW and NGP 85

Any suggestion/advice is very much welcome

[Ssnake]

War in the Pacific?

[Companion]

Oh, forgot to add: I'm looking for land warfare, preferably post ww2 period.

[tarball]

TOAW

[Hedgehog]

TOAW and NGP 85

What rules systems are these?

[Dr Doofenschmirtz]

Hi Companion,

TOAW is an excellent operational (brigade / division) level wargame and plays very much like the traditional tabletop "cardboard counter" wargames that first introduced me to wargaming. There are hundreds of scenarios available for download covering everything from Napoleonic battles, through massive East Front campaigns, to modern day conflicts (Being interested in cold war / modern conflicts my favourites are the epic WWIII central european theatre slugfests between NATO & Warsaw Pact Forces). It has been re-released by Matrix Games and tweaked to run stably on Win Vista (not sure about Win 7)

Being an operational level game there is a great balance between appropriate deployment of your available forces and the need to keep them supplied via your logistics network.

One of my favourite "command level" NATO vs WP wargames is Flashpoint Germany, once again published by Matrix Games.

This is another wargame that plays like a hex and counter tabletop game and covers a NATO vs WP confict circa 1985 on the Central German Plain (fictional town names - based on HOF Gap / US VII Corps area?).

It looks good, plays quite quickly and involves armour / mechanized forces and support assets such as direct & indirect fire artillery & mortars, chemical strikes plus tactical air support. No infantry modelled directly but abstracted as part of mechanized forces.

There are 17 or so scenarios including US, West German and UK units and a patch is available to enable scenarios to be played from the WP side.

Finally there is a SBProPE style AAR generator which lets you review your performance.

I have attached a couple of thumbnails, athough you can go to Matrix Games website for all the details.

It is not my intention to breach the "no advertising" forum rule, but this company seem to be one of the few who still release and support PC wargames.:bangin:

(I DO NOT WORK FOR MATRIX GAMES -Honest!:biggrin:

Please remember other wargame publishers are available!

[andym]

I agree with the suggestion of Matrix.do look at the John Tiller Campaign series,at present it is only WW2 and covers Western,Eastern Fronts along with the war in the Pacific.However,work is at an advanced stage to release JTCS Modern Wars (Vol 1) whiuch will cover Korea,Vietnam and i believe The Arab Isreali wars.Vol 2 will cover the Cold War era up to today.If Cold war conflict is your thang,then you cant beat HPS games Fulda Gap,West German Plain games.HPS games ARE available in the UK so no probs with a heavy P&P charge.

I do have Flashpoint Germany but i really couldnt get into it at all.Im not saying its a bad game just that i didnt take to the Game mechanics.

Going back to JTCS,i know its not exactly what you want,but it IS in my opinion,one of the all time best WW2 games.The scenarios range from small scale skirmishes up to the mighty OP Overlord,ALL of it,and it has over 1200 turns!There are plenty of missions and campaigns out there and the mission editor is a doddle to use.I have had JTCS for about 5 years now and still play it on a regular basis.When the Modern Wars come out it will be even better.(they are also working in a WW1 version as well)

Some of the HPS games.

http://www.hpssims.com/pages/products/ModBat/MidEast67/MidEast67.html

http://www.hpssims.com/pages/products/ModBat/FuldaGap/FuldaGap85.html

http://www.hpssims.com/pages/products/ModBat/Korea85/korea85.html

http://www.hpssims.com/pages/products/ModBat/NGP85/ngp85.html

http://www.hpssims.com/pages/products/ModBat/DanubeFront/DanubeFront.html

This is the link to the UK vendors of HPS products.I have used them and are VERY good indeed,if you order before 1200 then the chances are you will have it the following day!

http://www.duchet.com/

[Dr Doofenschmirtz]

Thanks for your input Andym and thanks for the link to "duchet.com".

The titles you mention are also available through eBay via the NWS-wargaming store, although postage costs seem to have been scaled up to keep overall prices identical to those on the HPSSims website.:confused:

After reading your post I found my copy of NGP85, blew the dust off it, and reinstalled it.

Initially I was disappointed with how the wargame looked, particularly with the 3D tiles, on my ATi Radeon Mobility HD 4670 1920x1080 display. 3D view is virtually unplayable due to pixellation of the hex "tiles", although the 2D views were useable.

Fortunately the AI routines are excellent, providing a solid AI opponent, although the PACT AI does seem to concentrate on capturing cities to gain a victory via VP's rather than steamrollering the NATO defenders and bypassing most cities with their Tank Armies (which most analyses of a theoretical NATO Warsaw Pact Central European conflict seem to imply IMHO). The AI does use Spetznaz special forces effectively in disrupting NATO rear areas.

After digging about on the interweb I found a host of "new" mods and patches expanding the campaign into the Fulda Gap and Danube areas with excellent documentation AND excellent new 2D tiles which improve the default map.

The Fulda gap and Danube front mods also mean that you could get away with buying only NGP85 to wargame the whole ETO! Bargain!:biggrin:

The new unit art produced by Volcano (THE VolcanoMan??), graphical mods, and expanded scenarios are found at http://members.shaw.ca/gcsaunders/welcome.html

Installing the recommended mods and scenarios has transformed the wargame (in 2D mode anyway) and I have to agree with Andym that NGP85 is indeed a deeper study of a NATO-PACT WWIII potential conflict.

Also, Companion, if you become proficient in NGP85, the similarity of the John Tiller game mechanics across all his Panzer Campaigns titles mean that you could easily try other games in the series with a minimal learning curve.

To be honest I would buy both TOAW III and NGP85 if you can afford it as they are both excellent operational level wargames, and buying both would help keep the struggling PC wargaming industry alive for a little while longer!

BTW Andym, where did you find the information regarding new versions of the modern campaign series?

[andym]

On the Matrix site.heres the link to the JTCS stuff.Also there is a blog by Jason Petho,one of the devs about it.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=226&p=&tmode=1&smode=1

http://forums.gamesquad.com/blog.php?98-Jason-Petho-s-Blog

[GaryOwen]

One of my favourite "command level" NATO vs WP wargames is Flashpoint Germany, once again published by Matrix Games.

This is another wargame that plays like a hex and counter tabletop game and covers a NATO vs WP confict circa 1985 on the Central German Plain (fictional town names - based on HOF Gap / US VII Corps area?).

One of the maps is actually a rather close representation of the area near OP Alpha north of Fulda. A screen shot of the Steel Beasts Haune Valley terrain map is linked for comparison. (IRRC, the 'Hof Corridor' referred to the avenue of approach into southern Germany, rather than into central Germany.)

[Gibsonm]

Well I'm guessing you are talking computer based?

If you are also including cardboard based, then I'd recommend SPI's The Next War.

Map is about 2m x 2m (Denmark to the northern area of Italy, Western Poland to Eastern France.

Only takes about 2 days per side to setup (Bde / Bn sized units) and about 3hrs to resolve a turn (who "wins" the air superiority level, influences the ground atk level which in turn needs to be resolved before the ground phase, etc.).

Only about 2,500 counters.

Great "therapy" to set it up over Easter, just to start packing up again on Easter Sunday so the room is free again on Tuesday morning.

Link: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/8719/the-next-war

[GH_Lieste]

There is a vassal module if keeping a paper counter map that large going is problematic...

[Volcano]

If you want an operational level game, DEFINITELY look into John Tiller's Modern Campaigns series. You can find these titles very cheaply on the net at "NWS".

And yes, someone mentioned it above, you can go here:

www.volcanomods.com

...which is my website, and you can get all sorts of wonderful art/scenario packs for these games, including Modern Campaigns. As for the "NWS" store which sells them cheaply, click the batter at the top of that page to go to it, or Google "NWS game store" or something like that. I buy games from them all the time; they have some great deals on these types of games.

I recommend, yes, shameless plug, -- get Korea '85! Someone around here had something to do with that game, I cannot remember who or what.

[andym]

If youre wanting the Classic counter game then look no further than GDW's excellent series,ASSAULT,it includes the Bundeswehr,Boots N Saddles and Chefitain expansions and is in my mind THE definative COLD WAR BAOR NATO game EVER made.Theres still a lot available on sites like game geek.You might find Chieftain a tad hard to find though.One place you might like to try is Second Chance Games.I manages to get a mint copy of T&S Hell hath no fury.. about the Boudicean revolt in Roman Britian.

http://www.secondchancegames.com/

Oh and also,them Volcano modes are a joy to behold!:biggrin: