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Captain_Colossus

Royal Scots Dragoon Guards C2 (desert)

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Tanks. Final touches in progress....

SS_23_56_41.jpg

Except why the clash in symbology?

Unless things have changed the symbol and the numbers used to mean something in the UK army (and still do here).

For example a Triangle meant A Squadron, but "32" implies 2 Troop, C Squadron.

If you start with a Triangle then the numbers within should be "11", "11A", "11B", "11C", "12", ... etc.

2 Troop C Squadron was (is ?) marked as "32" in a circle. A circle being the C Squadron graphic?

So the back of the turret is right, while the side of the turret is wrong?

To be even more specific / pedantic the graphic on the back of the turret is more like a bridge classification and unless the thing has been on a severe diet I don't think it can cross a bridge rated for 32 tonne?

So if you can have a "dashed circle" in a similar way to the current "dashed triangle" on the side, then a dashed circle with "32" inside would be better for both aspects of the turret.

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Well I'm unsure if that's meant to be supportive of my comments or not (but note that the symbology on the Challenger hull does match the turret in terms of the vehicle's call sign).

And I'm afraid I'm not at liberty to post the relevant chapters out of "Standing Orders for Vehicle Operators" (SOVO's) which is our guide on what to paint where.

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Well, it's not always that way, for example, the BATUS CR2 in this picture is similar but for the fact that it doesn't have the SB Pro uparmored side skirts.

Seriously- it's kind of absurd to even object to what I'm doing because SB doesn't have a numbering system anyway, just a single skin and decal file used for all vehicles. It works if you have one CR2 in the scenario, but it kind of loses the point when you have a whole company with the same number '11A' or something.

Challenger2MBT13.jpg

There are reasons why I've done things a specific way, that is, used a circle on the turret:

1) In the rare chance I actually match up someone's track. I'm not hot on positively identifying a specific unit. This way it just won't happen. I take some liberties to mix and match just to preempt that possibility, by making it a little generic. Maybe you'll find there should be only two or four white rings on the fume extractor rather than three to appropriately identify the vehicle in that particular platoon, verified by a squaddie you know who served on it. Well, so that no one might ever on the off chance recognize it, no one is in the position to really say, "Hey, that's mine!" or anything. I've thought about doing a license plate, but again, if I do, I'll use similar conventions, but likely I will do it so as not to identify a specific vehicle, that is to say, it will be similar, but the identifying number itself will break convention a little.

2) I'm not using the decals template. I'm using an older version of Adobe Elements, I can't use the alpha layer editing function of the decals sheet. Everything is painted to the skin itself. While dejawolf's template is nice and detailed, space is apparently saved by making some parts redundant. In this case, the side hull is recycled as a mirror image on both sides, so if I directly paint there, it will be a reverse mirror image on the other side. In other words, 54B would be mirrored as B45 on the other side with each number or letter flipped horizontally. So, I can't paint any markings there, unless they read the same backwards and forwards, i.e., 00, II, 88, AA, etc. I only discovered this after I spent some considerable time doing it (although I sensed this may happen, I was hoping that it didn't), I simply wanted to save some of the detail rather than just discarding it altogether. I had to deliberately leave the hull blank because of that. Remember, I'm not using the decals file, I'm painting directly on the skin. So, I also take certain liberties there by moving things around a little bit, it's a compromise between being practical and making it look somewhat recognizeable. Personally, I'm not so much into decals anyway, but the only way that I even got around the decals feature of SB Pro is that someone was nice enough to give me a blank decals file that I can use by renaming the file and applying to any vehicle.

If someone doesn't like it, they don't have to use it. That being said, I can certainly upload blank versions, and someone can use whatever decal set they want.

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Many thanks, especially since I say without qualification I admire what you've done in the past the most. If anyone wants to see the best user mods, they're certainly yours. I've improved because my first skins in the past were pretty much garbage, but I'm probably topping out as to what I can do, whereas you and dejawolf could still show me alot. I only discovered almost by accident how to make the thermal panels, simply used a blank square, duplicated it, dragged it out of the border area slightly and then lightened it to make shadows to give it some depth, then adjusted the color of the 'tape' from green to various gray shades to look reflective.

You and dejawolf are the true artists, it's just taken me a while by brute force methods.

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Certainly, like I said, that would get around the problem and people can add or take away whatever they want. As far as numbering goes, I don't find that numbered decals makes much sense since by definition if all vehicles get the same number, it's self defeating as no vehicle can be uniquely identified. To even bring up the fact that I'm deliberately swapping these around really is besides the point in light of that. I just add them for a little national recognition without identifying any particular unit per se, but even for my own use I tend to get rid of them.

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To even bring up the fact that I'm deliberately swapping these around really is besides the point in light of that.

I wasn’t suggesting you were deliberately swapping them around, it was merely an observation.

You are doing all the hard work and if you want to mark it up that way, its up to you.

Having said that I do wish we could have individual markings for each vehicle (preferably automatically added when you select the unit name in the editor and indeed support for Non US names in the editor too) but failing that, a “generic“ option without call sign would be great from my point of view too.

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Mark, it's in preparation. It's just that we have to do it "on the side" (and that means to convert all military ground vehicle models (!)). I could say a few words about certain penny-pinching customers whom we offered to make a truly life-conforming decal system for vehicle identification, but they went for the cheap option of a magic identifier in the player's sights instead.

Which was totally their right; it's not us to exclusively decide what's important for training. But of course a "preliminary" solution takes a lot of pressure out of the vessel and hence tends to become permanent as it kinda does the trick, even if it could be made better.

Which we're doing, it just can't be a high priority project for us.

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Mark, it's in preparation. It's just that we have to do it "on the side" (and that means to convert all military ground vehicle models (!)). But of course a "preliminary" solution takes a lot of pressure out of the vessel and hence tends to become permanent as it kinda does the trick, even if it could be made better.

Which we're doing, it just can't be a high priority project for us.

Understood fully.

To me getting the decals, turret responses and unit names sorted are second order requests, hence the use of the term "wish" instead of "demand" or "it really pi**es me off", etc. :)

I also appreciate that using terms like "demand" wont get me anywhere, anyway.

Thankfully I've haven't seen any magnetic attachments, so I think I'm safe to say "It wasn't us!". :)

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Except why the clash in symbology?

Unless things have changed the symbol and the numbers used to mean something in the UK army (and still do here).

For example a Triangle meant A Squadron, but "32" implies 2 Troop, C Squadron.

If you start with a Triangle then the numbers within should be "11", "11A", "11B", "11C", "12", ... etc.

2 Troop C Squadron was (is ?) marked as "32" in a circle. A circle being the C Squadron graphic?

So the back of the turret is right, while the side of the turret is wrong?

To be even more specific / pedantic the graphic on the back of the turret is more like a bridge classification and unless the thing has been on a severe diet I don't think it can cross a bridge rated for 32 tonne?

So if you can have a "dashed circle" in a similar way to the current "dashed triangle" on the side, then a dashed circle with "32" inside would be better for both aspects of the turret.

Well with regards to the C/S things have changed. You are correct in saying the TAC symbols are triangle for A Sqn, square for B Sqn, circle for C Sqn and a rectangle for D sqn.

However the C/S matrix used by all Sqns are identical and they differentiate by use of a daily changing C/S prefix.

This would mean 32 is the third troop corporals tank with 30 being the Troop Leader and 31 being the Troop Sergeant.

Hope this helps

Irish

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