rump Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Today it was reported that 50 % of the CV9035 vehicles are out of service.Hydraulic failures, sprockets breaking and no spare parts.Dutch link: http://www.rtl.nl/%28/actueel/rtlnieuws/binnenland/%29/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2011/06_juni/11/binnenland/pantservoertuig-deugt-niet.xml -Rump 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted June 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 12, 2011 That sounds like the US Army in the mid 1990s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Is this because of a unexpected failure rate or just lack of spare parts? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 In the movie they talk about failing fire extinguisher, hydraulic hoses (too short and break down), mechanical moving parts of the turret, no spare parts. Excuse from MoD: new high tech vehicle always has problems. I feel sorry for the Dutch. I really do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted June 22, 2011 Members Share Posted June 22, 2011 Well, the army can't really say that they are deliberately cash starved by their government and that they can't afford the spare parts and more intensive maintenance. That usually gets careers dead-ended if not shortened outright. Better declare it as a transient problem that will go away in the future, and hope that the public will have forgotten about this by the time that the story makes it into the news, again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarball Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 According to this 3-year-old article (http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_1200.html) the Dutch were "procuring" 192 CV90s. While I can't read the language in the article rump posted, I can determine that the number of CV90s, at the time of the article, is 184. While it is not my intention to offend any Dutch with this, do you need more than 92 AFVs? I like the Netherlands (I was there last month), but it is a small country closely ensconced an area of Europe within close range to many other larger armies of countries they are allied to. I look at Switzerland, a country of 7.8 million people, occupying 15,940 square miles (41,285 sq. km), and with a GDP of $321.989 billion, who is not allied with anyone (and not likely to get into any fights) and see that they actually have just about the same number (186) of CV90s. By contrast, the Netherlands has (surprisingly, is the fact that the territories are now just a part of the country?) a similar land footprint at 16,158 square miles (41,848 sq. km), 16.6 million people, and a GDP of $676.895 billion.So, twice the people, twice the GDP and the same number of CV90s as the Swiss. What's the point of my demography? I'll bet the Netherlands is just fine with 92 AFVs and the Swiss are also over-purchasing and could sell you some of their overage for cut-rate/for-spares prices. However, I'm sure the travesty in the article lies with the fact that you've only had them for a few years - what gives? Sounds like military goodies in Europe experience the same market pressures experienced in the USA: if you build it, they'll come. If Germany and Sweden build a bunch of heavy stuff, someone is going to try and find a way to convince every army in Europe that they need the goodies. I can see the sales pitch has worked for quite a few Nordic countries.If you look at NATO membership, and look at how NATO is actually being engaged more frequently in recent years, I wonder why member states don't just "pool in" for hardware like CV90s?All of the operators of the CV90 are either NATO member states or signatories to the "Partnership for Peace." Since the likelihood of Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, or the Netherlands engaging as belligerents has to be statistically insignificant, why not partner up? While Switzerland may not jump into any future fights with the others, even not-in-NATO Sweden went to Afghanistan with their goodies for ISAF, so the time-sharing may be viable outside of the obvious pretexts. Wow, even the Swiss were in ISAF, but I don't think they took their goodies, can anyone confirm?Do these guys need 1200-odd CV90s between them? Despite historical differences, I especially see this working in the Nordic countries.Anyhow, some will say I'm being rude and/or naive, but neither are my intention. So, what about it? Why not "time-share" these things? Or, would that be putting BAE Systems Hägglunds out? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipuli Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 tarball, you're thinking "peace enforcing" etc. operations only, where western countries bunch up to kick some 3rd world country around to get what we want. At least the Finnish military buys vehicles mainly to defend itself if the need arises. In that case having shared vehicles in say Operation Irani Liberation under Danes while bombs fall here wouldn't help much... But yeah, I know, I know... We are being old fashioned. =) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rump Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 While it is not my intention to offend any Dutch with this, do you need more than 92 AFVs? You're not offending anyone, at least not me. Why and how they came to that number, I do not know. Maybe they looked at how many YPR-765's they had, the Dutch Army ordered a total of 2078 over the years. (Source:YPR-65 in Dutch service by Gerard van Oosbree, Google for 'MOS_21_YPR765_in_Dutch_Service.pdf') . The CV90, Fenneks, Boxers, Patria's and/or Piranha's were to replace these:http://www.dutchdefencepress.com/?p=1282I'm not sure that a hardware pool would work. Maybe let's start with an unified procurement system for hardware in Europe/NATO. :sonic:-Rump 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted June 24, 2011 Members Share Posted June 24, 2011 While it is not my intention to offend any Dutch with this, do you need more than 92 AFVs?Give 'em some slack. They just slashed their entire fleet of MBTs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 ....I'm not sure that a hardware pool would work. Maybe let's start with an unified procurement system for hardware in Europe/NATO. :sonic:-Rumpthats a good one :-D 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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