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murkz

Making a good impression

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We are a group of 5 players in a squad of 10 guys, we as a squad have taken advantage of the additional license program.

This has resulted in 2 new purchases from the team and 3 license purchases...

We are planning to have another session tonight where we will be lending out 3 more licences to the guys that have yet to try SB pro pe. I know this game is not about the graphics etc..

That said, we would like to make an impression on the new guys to hopefully sway them over to SB.

So what map and missions do you guys recommend to give us the best chance of showing SB in all it's glory?

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Missions

- that will be diffcult to choose from, as the choice is large:

* the classic "Are they attacking here":

a good fight & a tactical challenge (map is less interesting) - included in the game

* Spirit_V1:

rightly the winner of this year's scenario-contest & tactically interesting - map OK - included in the game

* OPERATION GRAFTON NOTCH:

bigger scenario - tactically interesting map - realistic setup of the map & units - contains even the A 10 ! :-)

- an adventure: see download area & read about it here:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=14160&highlight=GRAFTON+NOTCH

- pics: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2887438/Operation_Grafton_Notch.html#Post2887438

* Hünfeld's Bridges:

also bigger scenario - cool map & realistic setup of units - see download area & read about it here:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=8861&highlight=H%FCnfeld%27s

* "Svenska kommer":

single platoon - no map updates - SB at it's best

- see download area & read about it here:

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=8313&highlight=Svenska+kommer&page=3

* Rock Scissors Paper - read about & find it here: http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=14762

- map is less interesting - but this older scenario is !

Maps: Hannover is a classic, an incredible beauty

but I don't remember any missions on this map right now.

Have fun,

K

Edited by Koen

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Thank you Koen for the excellent advice...

We played "Svenska kommer" and all went very well, thought the cv90's would not cross the bridge laid by the mt55 :)

Again many thanks Koen.

Edited by murkz

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I’ve not played the scenario in question so can’t comment about the approaches the bridge,etc. but in general:

If you aren’t sitting in the driver’s position and manually driving the vehicle over, I believe the best option is from the map view:

1. Create a waypoint on the near side of the bridge (close the actual bridge structure).

2. Hold the shift key down.

3. Create the second waypoint on the far side (again close to the end of the bridge itself, not 40m away).

4. Set the speed between the two waypoints as slow.

You may have to “zoom in” to be able to select these waypoints near the bridge.

Also if its a platoon of vehicles I set the spacing to be wide to avoid them bunching up or colliding as the first vehicle slows down to make the crossing.

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River crossings must be properly planned, taking into consideration all of the following points:

  • Approach
    How are your forces to get to the entry point of the crossing? Consider complications, like direct and indirect enemy fire, or the possibility of a blockade of the route by obstacles
  • Overwatch and fire
    Which parts of your force are necessary to provide overwatch, and to eventually suppress defenders that want to deny you the access to the crossing
  • The crossing process
    Keep in mind that you need to be in column formation, and that high speed and close unit spacing increase the chance of a traffic jam if things aren't going according to plan. On the other hand, if time is the essence, slow speed may not be the best choice either. (However, if the situation requires a full speed, no holds barred storming of the bridge, it may not be the best possible plan in the first place.)
  • Unfolding at the far side
    Once that you ARE on the far side, where and when will you order the formation change. At the moment, this is problematic in SB. The rest of the platoon will assume formation and speed settings of the new route as soon as the lead vehicle has reached the waypoint at the end of the bridge. So contrary to Mark's recommendation, my recommendation is to extend the crossing route to at least 50m beyond the bridge end, followed by another route in column formation with reduced unit spacing (preferrably at low speed, the situation permitting), and only about 150m behind the bridge a change of formation to whatever you need at that point. Only this will make sure that all the vehicles of your platoon are past the bridge's exit point.
  • Time
    Not only does it take space, the whole process will take more time than you tend to expect. Make sure that you have suffcient time gaps between platoons, and that an eventual smoke screen and/or covering force are in place for the full duration of the crossing maneuver.

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Agreed but I thought he only had a concern with the actual technique to get the CV90 to use the bridge laid by the MTU-55, not so much the broader tactical considerations for an assault river crossing in general. :)

Edited by Gibsonm

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You are correct Gibsonm, we have the problem of getting the ai over the bridge.

Ssnake thank you for the information on the technique of actually crossing the river. When we get them over this will be very helpful.

Thank you for the clear information Gibsonm.

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Just to add some default scenarios that might be worth a play:

path...

Classics\Deliberate Assault 02

Classics\Hasty Defense 01

...but I am biased. ;)

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"Svensken Kommer" is one of my scenarios that I did a long time ago. But back then I had no problem what so ever to get the AI CV90s across the bridge. So why its struggling now I don't know. Guess I have to take a look at it when I get back from the UK War&Peace show.

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Hey Kingtiger,

I will see you there (w&p), 6 of us are going this year. We went last year and really enjoyed it.

We will be there Saturday and thank you for looking into the mission problem we are having.

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Cewl. I will be walking around in a British 1940s Battledress with Essex Regiment markings!

I did take a quick look and indeed there is two problems, one being terrain slippery, this scenario is done before we got the terrain values and terrain themes. so right now the sides are to slippy (my brigdelayer couldn't get up from the bridge because of it). Second the AI don't seem to find the bridge first time as it should and then screw up going over. This is a issue I didn't have when the mission was made back in 07.

But will take a look at it after W&P, flying over tomorrow morning so no time for it now. I also noticed the FO is a M113FO, we now have a CV90FO so will update the scenario a bit and do two versions, one with Leo2A4 (strv121) and Strv122, both with a CV90FO instead of the M113FO vehicle.

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Cewl. I will be walking around in a British 1940s Battledress with Essex Regiment markings!

I did take a quick look and indeed there is two problems, one being terrain slippery, this scenario is done before we got the terrain values and terrain themes. so right now the sides are to slippy (my brigdelayer couldn't get up from the bridge because of it). Second the AI don't seem to find the bridge first time as it should and then screw up going over. This is a issue I didn't have when the mission was made back in 07.

But will take a look at it after W&P, flying over tomorrow morning so no time for it now. I also noticed the FO is a M113FO, we now have a CV90FO so will update the scenario a bit and do two versions, one with Leo2A4 (strv121) and Strv122, both with a CV90FO instead of the M113FO vehicle.

If it is a MT-55 or Biber bridge, make sure you give beach orders to the units that are crossing it at the route segment over the bridge. If the scenario is old, then you might have used March orders long ago, but changes to better help the AI avoid water are such that breach is now required to get them to cross the laid bridge.

Also, just in case anyone is wondering, vehicles WILL ignore water obstacles on breach orders. This is intentional.

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All units cross using the same way points which have the breach order between them (all their routes connect to the same point where the MT-55 crosses and so should follow the breach order) I have played around by moving the bridge slightly and it plays merry hell with the ai units generating a 'flusterpluck' at the choke point the only useful quick fix is to give the MT-55 to a human player and letting him pick a point where the incline on both sides of the bank is less steep.

All units that breach seem to do so at a slow crawl and subsequently get stuck on the opposite bank due to a lack of acceleration again requiring human intervention.

Down side to that is you pretty much have to completely modify KT's mission which is a shame as its a damned good mission once your past the initial bridge issue.

Any way back on topic we seem to have increased our numbers now and I have as a result had to re-learn some of the editing skills I picked up with the mission editor.

Things for list:-

Check out river crossings and beach landings as all amphibious units seem to have trouble now when they get into a river they cannot get out again

Perhaps a feature to raise and lower water levels would be useful ?

If its not already their of course (I will check)

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No, this sounds to me like it is primarily a theme related issue if you are saying they suddenly cannot get out of the water. Someone needs to load up the theme and look at the water color for that scenario / map. Make sure the traction on water is 1.00 and drag is at 0.00 and perhaps even put hardness at 1.00 as well; this will help the vehicles get out of the water on the far side of the river unless they are going straight up a cliff (or climbing out of a huge body of water like a beach landing) -- in which case the bridge needs to be moved anyway or the vehicles need to take the approach to the bank at a column @ 45 degrees, or approach at an angle with manual driving.

The trouble is, maps and themes change often and someone may have refreshed it in an update and unintentionally broke the mission. The best thing to do would be to extract the map from the scenario, check the theme values in the Map Editor on that extracted map and change as needed. Then go back to Mission Editor and choose to replace the map with your extracted map file.

Of course that is not to say that the water and banks of rivers (and wadis for that matter) in SB cannot be improved however...

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Well I have done a little tweaking using the advice above, not sure the theme edits made much difference?

I also moved the breaching way points further back from the river banks either side and that seems to have solved that particular issue.

I also slightly changed the control logic for the units that cross so they don't all arrive at the bridge together I think moving the breach points further apart was the main fix but will have to stress test with the lads

lots of good tips though many thanks

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well, I have fixed the scenario now. But this is really ridiculous, I couldn't get the AI to pass over the MT-55 bridgelayers bridge 100%. Sometimes the whole platoon refused to find the bridge, sometimes 1 CV90 in the platoon made it over and the other 2 started to zig-zag along the embankments.

So what I have done now is a ford so now the AI can pass even if they don't find the bridge, but after running the scenario 5 times they have crossed the bridge every time so far.

I have attached the scenario here. I would appreciate if you folks would test it a few times and come back saying "it's ok" and then I will update the scenario in the download area.

/KT

56e83ca5e303b_Svenskenkommer!V2_rar.90b1

Svensken kommer! V2.rar

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Hey KT I 'repaired' your original mission and found if I moved the breach way points further back from the banks on each side the AI seemed to cope much better.

Sorry we missed you at War and peace we did keep our eyes out but so much to see meant we were probably looking the wrong way :) hope you had a good one

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yeah tried that to, I even went into map editor and redid the water obstacle so it was clean and straight. still there was times when the AI (one vehicle of a platoon) didn't manage to fix it so I decided to do a ford instead so the AI can get over for certain.

Edited by Kingtiger
Bugging spelling error

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I have attached the scenario here. I would appreciate if you folks would test it a few times and come back saying "it's ok" and then I will update the scenario in the download area.

/KT

I tried twice:

1° No problem

2° MT-55 seemed to get stuck in the swamp at the river where he had to lay the bridge - managed to get over it, but bridge was laid only at 11:45 (contrary to 7:36 in 1st try)

More important: 10/F (FOVCV) got stuck in swamp at same place => 1/A had big difficulties to cross the bridge, in fact only 2 out of the 3 veh could cross.

=> you might remove swamps from fording site ?

NB You probably know that map update is on again in V2, so for final version you might turn it back off eventually.

THX for V2 & rgds, K

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FWIW,

I changed the bridgelayer to a biber and haven't lost a single vehicle on the crossing since after multiple replayings.

I don't know enough about Swedish equipment to know if that's complete heresy to give them a biber instead of an MT55 .. but it works. The CV90s just didn't seem to be able to see the MT55.

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Koen: crap, I forgot to remove map update! Will do that.

hmm I didnt have any issues with the swamp thing. but as you noticed it I will change it to normal grass, that should eliminate the problem.

Splash: Sweden used the MT-55 as bridgelayer back in my days (2003-2004). It's called brobandvagn 971 in Swedish services. Apparently at the moment we have NO bridgelayers at all... :eek2:

Version 2.1 is attached.

/KT

56e83ca60dc69_Svenskenkommer!V2.1_rar.24

Svensken kommer! V2.1.rar

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