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SB Pro PE 2.6x general information


Ssnake

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well i use arty place holders for BLUFOR! guess i will be using M113s or OPFOR guns...any which way, still very happy to see real arty models in game!!

I'm still learning about SB, is the purpose of using arty placeholder is to represent arty units and to be able to shoot at as targets?

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I'm still learning about SB, is the purpose of using arty placeholder is to represent arty units and to be able to shoot at as targets?

Arty place holders are just units that appear as an arty unit on the map view, they have no other use in game, just place holders for future elements when implemented. OPFOR now have arty models but no functionality yet.

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2S1 -> Super !

And that is promising for the next (?) upgrade ...

NFI - Sorry.

Whilst not under a NDA or a contracted Beta Tester there is some "stuff" that we can currently do (e.g. there is a motor cycle but its doesn't have a "crew") which has been flagged as coming to the commercial version, but further developed (e.g. There is a crew in the coming commercial version and the next Pro version will get it too).

There is other "stuff" which we have access to the Nils hasn't mentioned here so I don't think its approprite to blab (just in case it doesn't make it due to production issues, etc.).

Its their product and they should control the information flow.

But as a general rule often the Pro product introduces / implements "stuff" that then flows on to the commercial one and due to things like software refresh schedules we may see things faster than the commercial customers.

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...in return, PE releases force us to consolidate code by running extensive beta tests. The number of bugs that were killed in the past weeks is mind blowing, and only very few of them were reported to us by the military customers (that part of the information flow can and should be improved, I say; hard to believe that nobody spotted all this before the beta testers).

With these alternations between innovation and consolidation everybody wins. :)

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...in return, PE releases force us to consolidate code by running extensive beta tests. The number of bugs that were killed in the past weeks is mind blowing, and only very few of them were reported to us by the military customers (that part of the information flow can and should be improved, I say; hard to believe that nobody spotted all this before the beta testers).

With these alternations between innovation and consolidation everybody wins. :)

Sorry wasn't trying to suggest that the Pro customers do all the heavy lifting.

I know here (and I suspect elsewhere) we have limited time to look at the "new" stuff. Mostly its taking known working solutions which are developed for specific trg outcomes and applying them.

So if I run 8 courses a year I'll use "Cbt Team Attack Problem 1" eight times as is (if it ain't broke, don't fix it). Then in the down time I may well tweak that problem to include something "new" (like say motor cycles).

Unfortunately in the pursuit of ever increasing "efficiency gains" we all now wear mutiple hats and I'm not a SB Pro user / scenario developer 7 days a week. :)

So I'm not surpised that a focused dedicated small team has more bug notches on their belts than us. :)

Then of course when it goes "live" you have an even bigger user base who try things and notice other issues.

So everyone contrbutes.

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I didn't intend to imply what you read from it. I didn't want to start a discussion about who does more or something. Your explanation about why certain things aren't spotted certainly makes sense for a part of it, but I suspect that there are other reasons as well why so little feedback from military customers in general reaches us (there are of course exceptions, especially during acceptance tests - but there is too little coming from the daily end users, so to speak, to be plausibly explained by the quite valid reasons that you gave).

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Some times, even if we, military end users, repport bugs to the technical staff, it never reach the industrial team.

eg, The Leclerc crew simulator had a bad Z coordinate for TC peri. No one, from 1995 to 1999, had seen it. I repport it when I have been converted from AMX30 to Leclerc. It has been changed in 2006 during the major hardware update after I told it directly to a Thales engineer...

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I didn't intend to imply what you read from it. I didn't want to start a discussion about who does more or something.

Nor did I - just wanted to make sure my coimments hadn't sowed the seeds for such a discussion either. :)

I prefer to ensure such things don't gto out of control and if that meaans a possibly unrequired apology up front will its a smoking pile of grass, that's better than 12 hours later when its a ranging forest fire of bruised egos / offended people. :)

Your explanation about why certain things aren't spotted certainly makes sense for a part of it, but I suspect that there are other reasons as well why so little feedback from military customers in general reaches us (there are of course exceptions, especially during acceptance tests - but there is too little coming from the daily end users, so to speak, to be plausibly explained by the quite valid reasons that you gave).

Guess it depends on who the "end users" are.

Say I run this mythic course 8 times a year and the panel per course is 40. So 320 people in my training establishment "use" the product per year. Generally they get say a half day training on how to use the product but don't get intimately involved in it.

For them its a tool and ideally they enjoy using it, at worst its another box that has to be "ticked" to get through the course so some might notice that X is not quite right, but I doubt few would specifically comment in more detail than the usual "this is f***ed", type comment (usually after their plan fails).

So are they the end user?

Then there's the "me" person who may well comment but as mentioned earlier has other stuff to do so doesn't comment a lot.

Then there's the group "above" the trainers who we do comment to. They need to filter our comments for trends and work out where the budget goes.

So my comment about say "why does the spare wheel on the ASLAV have a TI signature, when its not hot?" comment is not as important as the five Infantry guys complaining about the sprites or the fact that weapon system X doesn't work they way it should and is teaching bad drills.

So from say 10 schools x 8 courses x 40 trainees = 3200 people you might get a complaint about weapons system X

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Guess it depends on who the "end users" are.

To me, those who work with the software the most time. In your case that'd be you, and other instructors. The picture changes a bit in other armies where SB Pro is also used for crew procedure training throughout all stages of the training an education of, say, an armor crew member. If they have many repetitions of certain exercises and learn more intimately to work with the software, they develop more expertise than what is needed to operate it with enough competence to not blow an exercise.

Then there's the group "above" the trainers who we do comment to. They need to filter our comments for trends and work out where the budget goes.

Well, I think that may actually be the choke point. I see the logic behind the filtering, but IMO they should pass everything on in a totally non-committal way. We can then do or not do something about it as we see fit. If some budget gets allocated to get things fixed they can still set the priorities for getting some things fixed which we didn't in the meantime.

I'm all for customers setting priorities, that's a good thing. But that should not result in withholding bug reports. ;)

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