rump Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Linky: http://defpro.com/daily/details/921 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest theGUNSLINGER Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 thats a big money deal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Great. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Great. Hmm, we can use Sb to train how to crack 'em ;-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rump Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Great. Are they also shopping for Amphibious transport capability? - Rump 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngel Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Surely there is some international law to stop this. What would a crack pot country like Indonesia need with 2A6's. Their only potential enemy is East Timor and Australia (or their own people). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Are they also shopping for Amphibious transport capability?- RumpThey already own half the old East German Navy (including all of their amphib kit).As to how serviceable it remains is another question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDevice Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Ya gotta love that the 2A6s are "surplus." It brings to mind the image of them sitting in some dusty shop, just waiting for some eager buyer.It also speaks to the challenges of upgrading and maintaining a modern armored force. Ugh! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rump Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 It brings to mind the image of them sitting in some dusty shop, just waiting for some eager buyer. Just like the Dutch Leo's... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rump Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 They already own half the old East German Navy (including all of their amphib kit).As to how serviceable it remains is another question.Interesting... But surely, you don't consider them a real threat?- Rump 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngel Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Interesting... But surely, you don't consider them a real threat?- RumpEver heard of East Timor and what the Indonesian backed forced did there?. Indonesia is an islamic country of 260million which is at its closest point some 400km off the Australian coast. All the time their MBT's are PT-76's and AMX13's they aren't much threat. But now they are buying SU-27's and real MBTs who else can they be looking at?. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted November 28, 2011 Members Share Posted November 28, 2011 Indonesia just having them would be a major factor to consider already, e.g. in a case like the East Timor incident. It may not so much be a matter of a direct threat of invading the Australian continent, but the ability of Australia to project power with its land forces.It would force the deployment of the Abrams tanks, which in turn increases the demands on supply and the transport capacity (e.g. the question whether a sufficiently large number can be landed quickly enough), it might force Australia to plan for a much bigger operation involving substantial air power, to equip the army with a much stronger anti tank capability (and the associated costs in equipment and training).So yeah, it WOULD have an impact on the balance of powers in that region. Definitely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Well it may help rebalance our training back towards "A war" (where high tempo conventional Ops are included) away from the current "The war" focused on SW Asia.I'm just disappointed that the tank we wanted is now potentially in service with the TNI and the we are stuck with the tank "we had to have". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rump Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Well, this still has to be approved by the German Government.If they see it like Ssnake sees it, they probably deny the sale. But who knows for sure... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngel Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 "money talks and bullshit walks" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rump Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Well, they stopped sales before. At least when we (the Dutch) were trying to sell them (Leo 1v's to Botswana). :sonic: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Sure but if they are surplus and are costing you money to maintain in storage then no doubt there is a temptation to get rid of them (e.g. the other potential sale to the Saudi's) and devote the cash you get to propping up the European economy (where Germany seems to be providing the delaying force whilst anyone else with a border on the Med seems to be in a rout). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rump Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 I'm sure the temptation exists, especially in a market where almost every Western country is dumping surplus tanks. Combined with the rumours of thousands of Russian tanks coming to the market, they might just act on it, afraid that they won't find a buyer ever again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankHunter Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Forgive my ignorance, but haven't relations between Australia and Indonesia been fairly good historically? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngel Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 No 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) Forgive my ignorance, but haven't relations between Australia and Indonesia been fairly good historically? On a par with you guys and say Cuba or maybe Pakistan. 1964 - 1966 we helped defend Malaysia against Indon aggression (cf “Konfrontasi“) and even launched some attacks across the Malaysian / Indonesian border. Then Timor Leste (TL) went pear shaped in a big way in 1975 (some Australian journalists killed by TNI during the Indon invasion). Then finally we had to help “persuade” the TNI to leave in 1999 (with a BDE (+) lodgement) after the Timorese voted for independence and there were a few disagreements about where the border was. Add to that the Bali Bombing in 2002 (203 Killed, inc 88 Aust) - bombers slowly brought to justice. Australian Embassy in Jakarta bombing in 2004. ..... We do train some of our SF with them but that’s primarily to see what their standard is and in the words of U.S. Grant “keep them in the tent pi**ing out“. Edited December 2, 2011 by Gibsonm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankHunter Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Thanks for the very interesting and enlightening post Mark, the strategic in Oceania and SE Asia has been something that I knew little about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floydii Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Erm, I don't know if people have been to indonesia.. but it ain't exactly 'tank county'. Good luck finding a bridge they can cross at too.Indonesia's armed forces have for the last long while been wholly focused in internal security, with Aceh and the West paupuan separatist movements, so true expeditionary capability isn't really thier MO. They also have a habit of buying 'whatever' on a very ad hoc basis. Yes they have all these sweet fighter planes, but can you imagine the maintainance overhead for that many platforms? Finally, amphip capability in an opposed environment is difficult at the best of times, let alone delivering MBTs ashore. Considering they can't properly project airpower to cover such an operation, I'm happy to let them by all the static display pieces they want.(Yes, I know this thread is 10 months old, still an interesting topic for the Antipodeans.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rump Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Erm, I don't know if people have been to indonesia.. but it ain't exactly 'tank county'. Good luck finding a bridge they can cross at too. Well, we tried... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floydii Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Well, we tried.....so 4 meters forward and 4 meters back from that position? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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