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Scrapper_511

v2.640 Bugs

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The unit was a CV 90B.

This was on the downloadable scenario "The Chariot".

This particular case happened at coordinates: 3030 8230

An earlier attempt at the scenario, I also had one strand itself at coordinates: 3170 8190. That one was to follow the road near that location. I think that one was on the 'engage' order when it spotted the enemy and took hull down into the water. That too was a CV 90B.

Anyway, don't worry about it till next year. Please enjoy this holiday season. I'll check out the scenario you posted. Thank you again for your time and efforts.

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I tried that test scenario you uploaded. The Bradley does not seem to be set up to be amphibious. I know that one has to set the Bradley up to go across water in reality, but I don't know how to set it up in the sim for fording rivers and other bodies of water or if it is even possible in this sim. When I forced my Bradley across, it just sticks in the water and becomes incapacitated.

I went ahead and tested it with a SLAV-25 since I know it is setup as amphibious, and it had no trouble jumping into the lake and crossing. It actually went airborne, that was fun to watch.

After watching the Bradley avoid water, I can't help but wonder why I get so many units sticking themselves into the water.

Also, since I have this up, the SLAV usually gets a jerky motion when you try to go up a bank to leave water. I understand that some points on river bank will have an abrupt height change... which is fine, it is just that the SLAV starts to jerk between horizontal and some severe angle, such as 45° and oscillates between the two at times. This is while it is still in the water. This issues was noticed in the scenario River Crossing v2 download with the SLAVs there.

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I tried that test scenario you uploaded. The Bradley does not seem to be set up to be amphibious. I know that one has to set the Bradley up to go across water in reality, but I don't know how to set it up in the sim for fording rivers and other bodies of water or if it is even possible in this sim. When I forced my Bradley across, it just sticks in the water and becomes incapacitated.

Bradley's don't swim.

The initial trials vehicle did with the help of a flotation screen but subsequent armour upgrades have removed this capability.

It can ford to about 1.5m or so.

They can shallow ford

I went ahead and tested it with a SLAV-25 since I know it is setup as amphibious, and it had no trouble jumping into the lake and crossing. It actually went airborne, that was fun to watch.

After watching the Bradley avoid water, I can't help but wonder why I get so many units sticking themselves into the water.

Also, since I have this up, the SLAV usually gets a jerky motion when you try to go up a bank to leave water. I understand that some points on river bank will have an abrupt height change... which is fine, it is just that the SLAV starts to jerk between horizontal and some severe angle, such as 45° and oscillates between the two at times. This is while it is still in the water. This issues was noticed in the scenario River Crossing v2 download with the SLAVs there.

The ASLAV-25, ASLAV-PC and ASLAV-CSS can swim.

That change in angle is usually when its trying to exist the water but the bank is too steep. It tires to climb out, fails, floats again and then adopts the sharp angle trying to climb out again.

You need to:

a. Approach the bank at an angle, or

b. Find a piece of bank with a more gentle slope to get out.

Edited by Gibsonm

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Also, you must take into account whatever theme your using on the map. This can affect the amount of traction available to climb out of the river, a common fix is to line the banks with gravel where you might want to place a ford.

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That change in angle is usually when its trying to exist the water but the bank is too steep. It tires to climb out, fails, floats again and then adopts the sharp angle trying to climb out again.

You need to:

a. Approach the bank at an angle, or

b. Find a piece of bank with a more gentle slope to get out.

Yes, I already figured as much, if you reread my post I mentioned that it was fine that they couldn't get out at certain locations, as I understand the physics behind this. I have already done the aforementioned techniques when I first encountered the issue... though it would be nice if the AI would do the same. [Once again, back to babysitting tanks when I should be watching over the whole battalion.]

I just found it strange to have it jerk between the two angles. I would rather a gradual transition between the angles to make it appear more realistic. If I were to hit a bank that steep, the vehicle would probably not even be able to climb much at all, if any. This is of course a minor annoyance, and one that really does not need attention.

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[Once again, back to babysitting tanks when I should be watching over the whole battalion.]

Batallion Commanders don't babysit, that's the platoon commander's job. But yes, it's a PITA.

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Batallion Commanders don't babysit, that's the platoon commander's job. But yes, it's a PITA.

I agree with you. Problem is, the AI platoon leaders aren't doing their job. Been having to give out a lot of demotions lately. :debile2:

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I haven't noticed this in previous versions, so not sure. Also not sure if it is a bug:

TOW team of 3 men: when I target the gunner with coax, he is replaced instantly by a teammember. No delays. Would be nice to see actually the teammember walking to the launcher and take position. Workaround is probably shoot at the team with HE-Frag.

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Well, it's a simplification that we also had during sprite times.

I agree, it would be better if the launcher remained in place and the other soldiers would need to move to it to resume the fighting.

There's already a bug report filed for this, if this is of any consolation.

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I tried that test scenario you uploaded. The Bradley does not seem to be set up to be amphibious. I know that one has to set the Bradley up to go across water in reality, but I don't know how to set it up in the sim for fording rivers and other bodies of water or if it is even possible in this sim. When I forced my Bradley across, it just sticks in the water and becomes incapacitated.

I am not sure what you mean. The Bradley is NOT amphibious, that is the point. I was showing you that the behavior you describe does not happen on a regular basis -- even a scout route (which is what you say you used) that goes through a pond (which is going out of my way) has the AI driver around it on its own. So, that is why I said what you describe is not regular behavior and I was asking for the vehicle type (which I now know). However, I have replaced the Bradley with a CV9040-B and the same avoidance behavior occurs - which you can swap out if you like to see what I mean.

Anyway, the point is, the behavior you describe is not rampant so it must be something you are doing. I think I know the problem:

After watching the Bradley avoid water, I can't help but wonder why I get so many units sticking themselves into the water.

Keep in mind that if a unit is on a scout route then it WILL retreat along that route once it makes contact with the enemy. So, if you have a scout route through or very near water obstacles, then they will likely get around it (like they do in this test scenario) but we don't guarantee what they will do when under fire while retreating on their own, back the other direction, because units that are under fire MAY make mistakes as they get fixed on the contact. Better not to use scout routes near/over water obstacles if contact is likely.

The same is true if you have a battle position situated on the other side of a river (with the back facing the water). When in contact, units will get fixed on the contact and make mistake and some may back into the water by accident. As a battalion commander, you have to accept that these kinds of things will happen occasionally, especially if you give risky routes and BPs around water obstacles. You can't shepherd all the vehicles (as is the case in real life as well), you just have to adapt to what happens or plan better routes.

...again though, all of this is under constant improvement, but this is just more advice as to what must cause it, and how to deal with it.

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My apologies, I misunderstood at first.

Well, for you I guess they 'may' drown themselves... Unfortunately, they do so almost every scenario I play. This last round was when they came under fire in the scenario 'The Valley of the Jackal', three M1A1s decided to take hull down in the river by the road. One didn't get stuck, however the other two did. All I had to do was start the trigger to move out, then I just observed from there on. No user input except to look around.

This isn't the first time the units drown on this scenario... or any scenario with deep enough water that they come even slightly close to and come under fire.

I forgot how many drowned in the version with the Leopards, but at least two. I for one will not run out of pics to post, as, like I said, it happens quite often for me.

Maybe I'm just crazy?

Also, I saved the AAR but it seems to crash out after it finishes going through the loading windows. Like I said, this situation is easily duplicated for me, so I can always save another instance in AAR with this issue.

SS_23_11_33.jpg.a68525d8a0c6a6c5b557d869

SS_04_51_32.jpg.0d5a3f61549d6f3cccee6d0a

SS_04_52_29.jpg.a1dbd5bc2fd65740576fefdf

SS_04_52_45.jpg.7ae83b1bfde8b9d6dc6378dc

SS_04_53_00.jpg.1d9509e598d44dba026c4970

SS_23_11_33.jpg.a68525d8a0c6a6c5b557d869

SS_04_51_32.jpg.0d5a3f61549d6f3cccee6d0a

SS_04_52_29.jpg.a1dbd5bc2fd65740576fefdf

SS_04_52_45.jpg.7ae83b1bfde8b9d6dc6378dc

SS_04_53_00.jpg.1d9509e598d44dba026c4970

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Also, I saved the AAR but it seems to crash out after it finishes going through the loading windows. Like I said, this situation is easily duplicated for me, so I can always save another instance in AAR with this issue.

Could you please upload that AAR?

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I was re-watching some of the AI antics. It looks like another reason for driving into water, besides looking for hull down, is when they try to get back into formation. The units will try to form up on the lead vehicle based on which way it is facing instead of just turning toward the lead vehicle.

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Azure Lion, instead of uploading the AAR to the downloads area it would be much better if you just attached it to your post in this thread.

But here is the AAR.

/KT

Ah, my apologies

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Kewl beans. Hope you can get it to work. I've tried to load that and another AAR, but it just returns me to the main menu screen after it goes through all the loading windows. Please let me know if I'm crazy or not concerning this issue.

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Something wrong with that AAR I am guessing - I can't open it either, with the same behavior. Shows all the various Loading dialogs and then just goes back to the main menu.

Other AARs load successfully.

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While testing a scenario unspawned vehicles displayed crews and these where detected and showed up as enemy units by BLUFOR, see screen shot.

SS_21_36_24.jpg.1dfffdea2fc58153ed843636

SS_21_31_04.jpg.b449dada1f0977337381fb9a

SS_21_36_24.jpg.1dfffdea2fc58153ed843636

SS_21_31_04.jpg.b449dada1f0977337381fb9a

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