Canadian LAVIII Coys

[Kingtiger]

I'm pretty sure about that

what you have to do is rename all the companys to "1".

I figured it out by mistake when I screwed up a template :biggrin:

[Gibsonm]

Ah well I was wrong then.

[Kingtiger]

On the downside... try scripting with 7 "11" platoons! you have 7 alternatives called "11" in the scripting dialog box

"if unit "11" is in any area". great, which bloody 11? :biggrin:

[Gibsonm]

I am "11".

No, I am "11"!

[12Alfa]

They only exist in the standard LAV Coy C/S structure if they are organic (built in if you like) to their basic structure.

The Engineers aren't likely to be organic to the LAV Coy (likely only attached for a given mission) so you can pretty much call them whatever you want.

So if they are 1 Section, 1 Tp, A Sqn, XYZ Combat Engineer Regt you can call them: 11A

2 Section 1 Tp, B Sqn: 21B

They tend to use the call sign of the unit they came from.

Alternatively if the CT came from Canada with a set structure of a LAV Coy and a bit of this and bit of that "bolted on" then the OC would probably give them a Coy callsign for the duration of the deployment.

Normally we use ECHO 11A for the engineers.With in the CT we would use our arm indicators Tango,India,Golf and Echo.

These are easily remember, as we use them a lot, the rest we would have to dig out our SOI's.:frown:

[Kingtiger]

Normally we use ECHO 11A for the engineers.

Cheers for that, giving me more C/S jobb to do :biggrin:

regarding the attack order, there is a part about Indirect Fire, there is one thing Im not sure about:

FIRE PLAN (TARGETS, TIMINGS AND EFFECT) _______________

DF TARGET GR: ________________________________

C/S ________AUTH TO CHECK FIRE ________________

Callsign X authority to check fire. Should that be the FOO 1-9Golf or is it refering to a non-FOO unit (ex 9, 19 and 39) to have the authority to check fire besides 1-9Golf?

[Gibsonm]

Usually its someone else (like maybe the lead csn in the assault or the Tks in fire spt).

People who can call "last safe moment" just in case the FOO or his anchor OP is obscured by the dust, smoke, rain, dark, etc.

[Kingtiger]

Ah I see

Briefing attached here, does it make any sense?

CAN_BRIE_BLUE.txt

[Gibsonm]

Initial thoughts / reaction:

1. "we" tend to do "quick" atks ("hasty tends to be used for defence) so:

Quick and Deliberate Atk.

Hasty and Deliberate Defence

2. If its CT Atk, the CT OC would give the orders (so "one niner" [assuming its A Coy] instead of "niner").

3. Mission very brief: "Destroy" or "Secure" or "Clear". Expand on the how in Execution section.

so

""Mission; execute a right flank attack, assault force A COY with 1-9 in command, fire base Callsign 3-1 and 3-2 with 3-9Bravo commanding.

"Fire base at West - East going ridge at grid 065/488 facing north. Callsign 3-3 and 3-4 to provide intimate support"

"Break in teams 3-3 with 1-1 and 3-4 with 1-2.""

becomes:

"Mission: Clear PETERSVILLE

Execution: Right flank assault. Csn 1 (if its A Coy attacking then the OC is assumed to be in charge) spt by 33 and 34. 31 and 32 prov fire spt from vic GR 065/488"

19 will determine which Tk Tp spts which LAV PL. CO doesn't need to give that detail.

[12Alfa]

Ah I see

Briefing attached here, does it make any sense?

We can live with this, I've seen worse heheheh.

No it's good.

[Kingtiger]

Initial thoughts / reaction:

1. "we" tend to do "quick" atks ("hasty tends to be used for defence) so:

Quick and Deliberate Atk.

Hasty and Deliberate Defence

2. If its CT Atk, the CT OC would give the orders (so "one niner" [assuming its A Coy] instead of "niner").

3. Mission very brief: "Destroy" or "Secure" or "Clear". Expand on the how in Execution section.

so

""Mission; execute a right flank attack, assault force A COY with 1-9 in command, fire base Callsign 3-1 and 3-2 with 3-9Bravo commanding.

"Fire base at West - East going ridge at grid 065/488 facing north. Callsign 3-3 and 3-4 to provide intimate support"

"Break in teams 3-3 with 1-1 and 3-4 with 1-2.""

becomes:

"Mission: Clear PETERSVILLE

Execution: Right flank assault. Csn 1 (if its A Coy attacking then the OC is assumed to be in charge) spt by 33 and 34. 31 and 32 prov fire spt from vic GR 065/488"

19 will determine which Tk Tp spts which LAV PL. CO doesn't need to give that detail.

1. well, the Combat Team manaul says Hasty Attack so I'm going with that (another CAN vs AUS difference?)

2. Copy that, adjusting!

3. once again I'm following the suggested order in the combat team manual, I to find it a bit confusing and some parts seems out of context, but hey thats how the canucks roles apparently

We can live with this, I've seen worse heheheh.

No it's good.:smile:

Now that sound a bit worrying... :cul:

[Gibsonm]

"Charlie Charlie Nine X-ray, this is Niner, warning order follows:"

"CC9X, this is 9, WNGO:" (no need for "follows")

"FOO, Callsign 19Golf located at grid 058/483."

"FOO, Callsign 19G located at grid 058/483." (would be known to the CT but I understand the need to explain to player).

"Rendevouz at Grid 061/503, marked "LD" on map. Route to Rendevouz dirt path moving west-east direction south of Firebase, then CLONES ROAD, BELL FORD ROAD and then the low-lines SOUTH of WORTHINGTON ROAD to Line of Departure."

"3-3 are to secure Rendevouz asap.

How did they get a LD on their map?

If they knew the last time they had a O Gp and could mark their maps then the route can be on the map too and the radio traffic is just "as per trace"

Similalry if they have FBCB2 or similar the CO can draw this stuff and send it to the crew commanders digitally.

If its "old school" then you wont have an LD and the radio chatter becomes something like:

"LD vic (vicinity) Grid 061/503. 33 to recce LD / FUP and provide a guide for csn 1."

[Kingtiger]

The FOO position is actually one of the points in the hasty attack order. I think it determines where the FOO will move to to be able to call down arty on target. looking at the maps in the manual the FOO seems to move around by itself once the action begins, so I guess its a sitrep about where the FOO will be, as pure FYI or to remove the risk of friendly fire.

well, the LD is a bit of a cheat. I decided to mark it on the map so not confuse the player to much, I have also done some grey arrows along the path they are supposed to follow. The player will be 1-3 moving last in the Coy so it should be no-brainer of where to go. But then again Im not sure all who play this game got a brain

[Gibsonm]

We can live with this, I've seen worse heheheh.

No it's good.

Yes indeed (I'm just tweaking at the edges)

And speaking of tweaking (maybe some more AS "stuff"):

"No change in situation, Callsigns from 4-2 has bypassed PETERSVILLE and are continue recce north along alternative routes. Mission is confirmed, execute right flank attack."

"Assault force as earlier, Callsign 3-3 left, 3-4 right to lead the assault with 1-1 and 1-2 following up close behind with 1-3 following mounted behind 1-1 as reserve."

"Fire base confirmed at earlier positon with 3-1 and 3-2, 3-9Bravo in command with authority to check fire."

The situation is either "no change" or it has changed, not "no change, but this has happened".

Perhaps:

"Situation - No change. 42 continues on task (no need to tell the bad guy what 42 is up to and "we" should know).

"Mission confirmed" (that tells me it is a r flank atk) so , "execute right flank attack" isn't needed

"Execution Confirmed" (again all that follows is duplication) - "Assault force as earlier, Callsign 3-3 left, 3-4 right to lead the assault with 1-1 and 1-2 following up close behind with 1-3 following mounted behind 1-1 as reserve."

"Fire base confirmed" (surplus - at earlier positon with 3-1 and 3-2,) 39Bravo (surplus - in command) with authority to check fire."

So perhaps csn mix up but 19 is in the assault but 39B is commanding the fire spt?

If you want the LAV OC in the aslt and the LAV Capt to control the fire it should be 19 and 19B.

Happy for the Tk Sqn guy to do it (adds another Tk to fire spt) but unsure if that was what you meant.

[Gibsonm]

The FOO position is actually one of the points in the hasty attack order. I think it determines where the FOO will move to to be able to call down arty on target. looking at the maps in the manual the FOO seems to move around by itself once the action begins, so I guess its a sitrep about where the FOO will be, as pure FYI or to remove the risk of friendly fire.

No sorry I meant the bit about including his callsign. more than happy for the location bit to be included.

well, the LD is a bit of a cheat. I decided to mark it on the map so not confuse the player to much, I have also done some grey arrows along the path they are supposed to follow. The player will be 1-3 moving last in the Coy so it should be no-brainer of where to go. But then again Im not sure all who play this game got a brain

No worries.

I've seen real PLs just spear off on their own so I wouldn't be surprised.

[Gibsonm]

"BC, Battle Commander (a second Xo kinda) 9B"

Perhaps another "Canadianism" but we call him a Battle Captain.

"Engineer = 11E Shoul be Echo 11A but game limitations leave it at E11A."

If you are putting it on a map E11A is probably fine. "We" don't write any of those arm indicators out in full, so while we'd say "Tango 11", we'd write T11 if required (say in the text messages on the screen).

But again if I have an Inf PL symbol labelled "11" and a Tk Tp symbol labelled "11", the "I" and "T" are redundant by virtue of the symbol itself.

[Kingtiger]

So perhaps csn mix up but 19 is in the assault but 39B is commanding the fire spt?

If you want the LAV OC in the aslt and the LAV Capt to control the fire it should be 19 and 19B.

Happy for the Tk Sqn guy to do it (adds another Tk to fire spt) but unsure if that was what you meant.

39B is the Tank Sqn BC, who is in charge of the FB. Initialy its 39 who is in charge of the FB but hands over to BC and moves with the assault force if I got the manual correct. (if the CT are a part of a BT the BT OC can be the person in charge of the FB)

From the maps in the manual I get it that 19 (LAV OC), 39 (Tk OC),36 (Dozer blade) ( I just realised I stuffed it up, in the scenario the dozer is named 16... will change!) moves as a Tac HQ (with the ENG if available) leaving 19B and 39B in practical charge of the Coy/Sqn. after FB is set up 19/39 moves with the assault unit to have direct command over the assault, relying on 39B to do the bossing within the FB.

So I think I got the C/S right? (Exept the dozer that is)

[Gibsonm]

So both the Tk Sqn OC (39) and the LAV Inf Coy OC (19) are in the same assault formation?

Those two are "peers" so who is in charge?

I'm leaving that alone if its a Canadian "special".

[Kingtiger]

"BC, Battle Commander (a second Xo kinda) 9B"

Perhaps another "Canadianism" but we call hiom a Battle Captain.

"Engineer = 11E Shoul be Echo 11A but game limitations leave it at E11A."

If you are putting it on a map E11A is probably fine. "We" don't write any of those arm indicators out in full, so while we'd say "Tango 11", we'd write T11 if required (say in the text messages on the screen).

But again if I have an Inf PL symbol labelled "11" and a Tk Tpsymbol labelled "11", the "I" and "T" are redundant by virtue of the symbol itself.

Brain fart, BC is now named correctly as CAPTAIN and not Commander

and "shoul" now have a "d" attached to form a correct word

1-9Golf has been corrected to 19G. the FOO isn't a platoon.

true, I can remove "E" in 11A.

[Kingtiger]

So both the Tk Sqn OC (39) and the LAV Inf Coy OC (19) are in the same assault formation?

Those two are "peers" so who is in charge?

I'm leaving that alone if its a Canadian "special".

that's at least what I gather from this:

Don't know the real answer but I would assume its mission depending. If the attack will be India work mostly I would say the LAV OC is in charge, if the attack will be Tango focused the Tk OC would be in charge. That's how we do it over here if I'm not mistaken.

[Gibsonm]

Well if you have a Tk Sqn complete and a LAV Coy complete and Engrs then I'm thinking that's more of a BG and there should be a CO vehicle in there somewhere.

Curious as to what the answer is.

[Kingtiger]

DEFINITION

1. A combat team is defined as: “A tactical grouping based on

either a mechanized infantry company or a tank squadron, with at least

a platoon or troop of the other arm and additional support as required”

(ATB approved 2002-01-23).

STRUCTURE

2. The table of organization and equipment of 20 Canadian

Mechanized Brigade Group (the Land Force doctrinal warfighting

order of battle) was the basis for the establishment of the structure of

the combat team that is used throughout this document. Specifically,

the combat team is structured as follows (these composite elements

include their A echelons as applicable):

a. 19-tank squadron;

b. 15-light armoured vehicle (LAV III) mechanized

company;

c. an engineer troop, in the close support role; and

d. one forward observation officer (FOO) party.

3. The combat team can be task organized with the addition of

battle group (BG) assets such as Tube-launched, Optically-tracked,

Wire-guided missile (TOW) under armour, recce, etc. and other

supporting assets such as air defence (AD).

Going over the CT manual I can't find anything about who is supposed to be in charge, neither is there any dedicated CT HQ, only the Tac HQ formed by the Tk Sqn OC, LAV Coy OC, dozer and Eng asset. So to me it looks like its a partnership where the most suited OC is the CT OC, and only at BG level is there a dedicated BG HQ with a CO.

[12Alfa]

Going over the CT manual I can't find anything about who is supposed to be in charge, neither is there any dedicated CT HQ, only the Tac HQ formed by the Tk Sqn OC, LAV Coy OC, dozer and Eng asset. So to me it looks like its a partnership where the most suited OC is the CT OC, and only at BG level is there a dedicated BG HQ with a CO.

CT's are formed by the BG commander, at that time he will task the command of the CT to either. I've seen both ways.

[12Alfa]

Going over the CT manual I can't find anything about who is supposed to be in charge, neither is there any dedicated CT HQ, only the Tac HQ formed by the Tk Sqn OC, LAV Coy OC, dozer and Eng asset. So to me it looks like its a partnership where the most suited OC is the CT OC, and only at BG level is there a dedicated BG HQ with a CO.

CT's are formed by the BG commander, at that time he will task the command of the CT to either. I've seen both ways.

Also the caption is wrong, should read 1troop in fire base.:frown:

[Gibsonm]

DEFINITION

1. A combat team is defined as: “A tactical grouping based on

either a mechanized infantry company or a tank squadron, with at least

a platoon or troop of the other arm and additional support as required”

(ATB approved 2002-01-23).

"or" is the critical word there, note not "and".

So yes if the CT is based on a sub unit (Tk Sqn or Inf Coy) then that sub unit HQ is the CT HQ.

If its an "uber CT" like you have (more like a BG(-)) then the CO needs to say MAJ X or MAJ Y is in command.

Two people in charge doesn't work (cf Hannibal Vs the Roamns at Cannae).