Gibsonm Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Hmmm didnt think of that.Now that I am I would rather send my gunner.Just now patrolling a town searching for a hidden T90.He is listening to my commands to scan the right side when suddenly I spot the enemy to our left who is now turning the turret our way.Then for some reason he refuses to traverse left as I spam the button.:gun: Argghhhh and this was after like 1/2 hour of hunting.Well use your commander's override - that's what its there for.I'd also probably not send my least experienced or second least experienced crew member to make life and death decisions about my vehicle.The gunner should be busy being ready to help me if I'm caught in the open. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekingofstyle Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 We were always taught that if we wanted to look around a corner or clear an intervisibility line, the TC should just dismount and do the looking, helping reduce the chance of being observed and revealing the tank's position. Of course, whether TCs took it upon themselves to actually get off the tank and do so is another point entirely.DougDoes this count as an official request to be able to dismount the TC and look around? I'd love to be able to do that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfstriked Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Well use your commander's override - that's what its there for.I'd also probably not send my least experienced or second least experienced crew member to make life and death decisions about my vehicle.The gunner should be busy being ready to help me if I'm caught in the open.I ould of but I was turned out.He just refused for some odd reason yet was going left and right perfectly under command for 25 minutes.Actually after more thought its most likely I panicked and hit wrong keys.:heu: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I ould of but I was turned out.He just refused for some odd reason yet was going left and right perfectly under command for 25 minutes.Actually after more thought its most likely I panicked and hit wrong keys.:heu: Sounds like more than a few real gunners I've known who don't react until you kick them in the back of the CVC helmet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfstriked Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Sounds like more than a few real gunners I've known who don't react until you kick them in the back of the CVC helmet. LOL, I would of been kicking like crazy! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olifant Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Striker BGM-71 TOW Missile BGM-71 TOW Missile - US Soldiers Anti-Tank Training at Iraqi Army Base AiirSource 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Striker BGM-71 TOW Missile BGM-71 TOW Missile - US Soldiers Anti-Tank Training at Iraqi Army Base AiirSource We already have that. For using the stryker as a platform:Take the m113 or m901 and squint harder ;-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invader ZIM Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Considering the dry desert environment, it's pretty amazing how little smoke and dust the Tow leaves behind on it's way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgerutherford1861 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Does this count as an official request to be able to dismount the TC and look around? I'd love to be able to do that.Not from me, at least not at this point, was just a response to the discussion of having the driver's hatch open to help gain situational awareness around corners and such. I'm sure there are plenty of other things higher up "the list." As for the future, it would be a neat feature, but I can't imagine how easy or hard it would be to implement it. Judicious use of the observer view might be a way to approximate it - I can't imagine going too far from the vehicle as the commander, some crews might just leave you behind if you go too far and something pops up.Doug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 We already have that. For using the stryker as a platform:Take the m113 or m901 and squint harder ;-) Or perhaps the Piranha that its based on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Or perhaps the Piranha that its based on. Yes for inf version, but there is no Piranha with TOW launcher in SB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I would question your premise that a real crew always stays inside the vehicle.Clearly, the vehicle AI opens and closes turret hatches on its own. From what I can tell, it closes the hatches when taking fire and opens them when it decides its not under threat. Since crewman are not visually depicted, we don't know whether the TC is outside the turret or not when the hatch is open. (Admittedly, perhaps you know more about the program than I do and you can say whether I am correct or not). In MBTs with thermal-equipped TC periscopes, it probably makes sense for the TC to stay inside the turret most of the time, as it's easier to acquire targets with TIS than with binos or the naked eye. For earlier tanks such as the M1 series prior to the SEP -- and maybe even for tanks with stabilized NON-thermal peris -- the TC would be spending much more time outside the hatch, notwithstanding the possibility of UNexpected attack. I recall Ssnake himself stating at some point that, in his own experience, TCs do and should spend most of their time outside the hatch. I believe he has said that he was a Leo2A4 crewman, so this speaks volumes about the situation even where the TC has a stabilized peri. And I think his advice to SB users was the same -- TC should operate outside most of the time. (I hope Ssnake will correct me if my memory is faulty).With this in mind, I think it's possible to accommodate both your view and mine. For vehicles with an (operable) TC thermal peri, the TC will drop back into the turret whenever you leave the F7 position. For other vehicles, the TC posture persists until (1) you change it, or (2) the vehicle is "under threat" according to the AI code. Obviously, there is always risk of unexpected attack (sniper; IED; unspotted enemy units; artillery). But, if real-world practice is that TCs of particular vehicles stay exposed to achieve maximum SA unless faced with immediate immediate threat, as is true with the earlier M1s, for example, then I think my suggestion is valid -- TC stays where you leave him unless vehicle is "under threat" per the AI.I'm a former TC and platoon leader too, on AMX30B, AMX30B2, Leclerc serie 1, serie 2, serie XXI.Only Leclerc serie XXI has a thermal TC sight.And I always been trained to fight from inside, with closed hatch (and it's a necessity with Leclerc, or the crew will suffer from firing gaz intoxication after 2 rounds!). There is an other problem with persitance of position: if you left the TC inside, you may reduce the AI SA were it need to be out the hatch (in wooden area for exemple...As you say, not a simple answer for this question.This is very interesting, and I'm going to start a dedicated thread to talk about this in more detail when I get the chance.I have some ideas to.Ssnake had said they will not developp to far the F5 map, because there are some 3rd parties solutions, to interface real BMS to SB PRO; but some improvement could be done for PE user (more graphics overlays, map unit icone editing, graphic exchanges limited to planning phase to simulate paper map only (with no map update option)... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDF Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I'm a former TC and platoon leader too, on AMX30B, AMX30B2, Leclerc serie 1, serie 2, serie XXI.Only Leclerc serie XXI has a thermal TC sight.And I always been trained to fight from inside, with closed hatch (and it's a necessity with Leclerc, or the crew will suffer from firing gaz intoxication after 2 rounds!). Could this be a question of national doctrine? I could be mis-attributing things the Ssnake, but I do recall him saying that his own experience was different. If it is a question of doctrine, then the behavior could be coded as vehicle-specific defaults in the same way that default platoon sizes are.There is an other problem with persitance of position: if you left the TC inside, you may reduce the AI SA were it need to be out the hatch (in wooden area for exemple...That's true, but as far as I can tell now, the TC always defaults to being inside the turret. So, in the circumstances you just mentioned, you might move him out of the turret to get a better view, then you shift momentarily to the gunner position or another vehicle for whatever reason, and the TC lowers himself back into the turret! I'm generally in favor of empowering the user, so the best approach might be (as I suggested) making the TC persist out-of-turret only when the user double-taps the 'q' key. That way, both you and I have things our preferred ways. Of course, I'm not the guy who pays eSims developers' salaries or has to answer to other customers when their own modifications aren't done in time.I have some ideas to.Ssnake had said they will not developp to far the F5 map, because there are some 3rd parties solutions, to interface real BMS to SB PRO; but some improvement could be done for PE user (more graphics overlays, map unit icone editing, graphic exchanges limited to planning phase to simulate paper map only (with no map update option)...Yeah, I recall that too. I'm just trying to think of some (hopefully) relatively low-cost improvements for the public version. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfstriked Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 IMO the hatch itself should be changed so that it is always left open unless you personally close it.Some testing of hatch opening speeds is as follows.M1ASEP,Challenger,LEO2A4 were all 2 seconds from buttoned to unbuttoned and standing out of hatch.The LEO2E and LEO2A5 family take 6 to 7 seconds.The LEO2A5 family though,which has the same hatch mechanism as the LEO2A4,also taking 6 to 7 seconds seems a bit strange. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDF Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 IMO the hatch itself should be changed so that it is always left open unless you personally close it.Some testing of hatch opening speeds is as follows.M1ASEP,Challenger,LEO2A4 were all 2 seconds from buttoned to unbuttoned and standing out of hatch.The LEO2E and LEO2A5 family take 6 to 7 seconds.The LEO2A5 family though,which has the same hatch mechanism as the LEO2A4,also taking 6 to 7 seconds seems a bit strange.Some of these later vehicles have additional roof armor, making the turrets heavier and (I think) requiring mechanical assistance to move the hatch, which is why they move relatively slowly.Isn't the current default to always have the hatch open, but the TC inside the turret? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfstriked Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Some of these later vehicles have additional roof armor, making the turrets heavier and (I think) requiring mechanical assistance to move the hatch, which is why they move relatively slowly.Isn't the current default to always have the hatch open, but the TC inside the turret?Default right now is to close the hatch when in combat situation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLabor Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 The LEO2E and LEO2A5 family take 6 to 7 seconds.The LEO2A5 family though,which has the same hatch mechanism as the LEO2A4,also taking 6 to 7 seconds seems a bit strange.Err...The STRV122, the Leopard 2E, okay. The 6 seconds correspond to open the sliding hatch.But the Leopard 2A4 and Leopard 2A5s shouldn't be that long. You lift the hatch, turn it and lower it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Could this be a question of national doctrine? I could be mis-attributing things the Ssnake, but I do recall him saying that his own experience was different. If it is a question of doctrine, then the behavior could be coded as vehicle-specific defaults in the same way that default platoon sizes are. But how do you deal with nations that use the same vehicle but perhaps have differing doctrine? I'm generally in favor of empowering the user, so the best approach might be (as I suggested) making the TC persist out-of-turret only when the user double-taps the 'q' key. That way, both you and I have things our preferred ways. Of course, I'm not the guy who pays eSims developers' salaries or has to answer to other customers when their own modifications aren't done in time. At the moment double tapping stands them further up (say above the waist exposed) so you are off trying to squeeze yet another keyboard combination out of the limited set of options. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDF Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) But how do you deal with nations that use the same vehicle but perhaps have differing doctrine? Well, nothing's perfect. . I'm all in favor of more flexible solutions, like making it configurable in the mission editor, but I'm trying to avoid going overboard in my "demands" to eSims. That said, if there there are doctrinal differences, the program as it stands appears to institute a single doctrine universally. So, my suggestion would at least ameliorate this to some degree, but would, as you suggest, leave some anomalies. At the moment double tapping stands them further up (say above the waist exposed) so you are off trying to squeeze yet another keyboard combination out of the limited set of options. I should have been more clear....I meant doubletap functionality like that used for the Ammo1-Ammo4 keys, where two consecutive taps in rapid succession cause the loader to remove the current round and replace it with the indicated type. This still might cause problems along the lines you suggested though, because users might still use two rapid 'q' presses to get from inside the turret to the fully-exposed position. I guess if I could have my way, the 'w' doubletap would only cause persistence if it occurs when the TC already has been ordered to the semi-exposed posture or fully exposed. So, if the TC is in the turret, two rapid taps would only bring him to fully exposed position. Three rapid taps would bring him to the persistent fully-exposed position. When the program receives the first 'q' keystroke, it determines that the TC is not already in (or on his way to) the semi-exposed position, so the next 'q' keystroke should not be interpreted as a doubletap. Edited March 6, 2014 by MDF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfstriked Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 If this will help anyone,I actually have R as "TC position" and also as "go up". So when in gunner/driver/observer position and I want to unbutton I just press R a few times and voila.Plus its one key for a much used function where before you had to reach for the F# key to go to that position and then press Q key to go up.Works great and feels easier as my hand doesn't have to do the dance and all functions are centered around WASD. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavictoireestlavie Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 It is official, this is what we all want: I rest my case :clin: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpow66m Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 A plastic model MBT? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 A plastic model MBT? Or a lego version. LoL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooCURToo Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Are Leclercs always this clean looking? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpow66m Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 That is a heavy looking MBT,it just looks heavy.Has alot of ''presence'' I guess youd call it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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