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Steel Beasts: Content Wish List

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+1 For this, its very stupid to not make these visible. There is no excuses for that.

Yeah, there are reasons, and the sooner you figure that out the sooner you'll stop making such ignorant posts.

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They're definitely not useless, more than anything else, they can slow down or even block an armored unit.

They probably require the most effort and fine tuning as an ongoing process, since they would have to be the most complex element in the simulation (vehicles can't run into buildings, conceal themselves behind walls, pop up and fire, even commit to hand to hand combat, and so on).

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I think with crew served weapons the issue isn't just immersion, but as others have said, even a practical matter that aids detection or orients players as to how units are exposed if you're trying to avoid detection, or conversely, spot an enemy and attempt to kill it.

There have been times when a technical with a recoilless gun or heavy machine gun was parked in a depression or behind a wall, I didn't really know if there was an enemy gunner on it. Not enough of the vehicle in these instances were exposed to get a shot to kill it, but an empty looking weapon, which is the same graphical state whether it is a threat or not.

Perhaps an interim measure for those vehicles such as technicals, where the absence of a crew member definitely affects the 'detectability' of the unit, would be to modify the weapon itself to include a static crew member? Not perfect, as the crew member would remain upright even when dead, but an improvement, IMHO, on no crew member at all. And technicals usually burn when destroyed so this would continue to be the definitive live/dead indication. Or even better, would it be possible for the weapon/crew member to fall over when destroyed in the same way as a tank's gun adopts the droop position?

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If I can respond to the infantry and their usefulness, I would say that to me, how useful they are depends upon my mission.

I find infantry to be very useful in defensive situations if the terrain is favorable to their use and they have appropriate weapons. If I have APCs or IFVs to go with them then I can use them in an ambush, pull them back quickly, and use them again in other ambushes,

On the offensive, I find them much more difficult to use.

They're too slow and vulnerable attacking on foot, they can't get close in their vulnerable transports...

The most use I get from them in attacks is when I can have them open the hatches on IFVs like the CV90 so that they can be extra eyes and guns in a fight, and that's only if they can unbutton without disabling the primary weapons.

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Some images:

SS_19_57_57.jpg

SS_19_58_09.jpg

sube fotos

You can easily detect inf in buildings at 4000m, this is only with Leo 2 GPS,with M1 sep GPS or Leo 2 TC Thermal camera.....bufff.AI can only see inf at -1000m.Not only detecion is a problem, when you shoot them at ,lets say at 2500m, they only stay until death.

Its impossible make any kind of ambush,not only at citys,infantry hiding in woods is well covered with the "sinking",but when enemy is close they always start moving loosing they protection.

People who say inf is useful,its ok for SP because IA is a little stupid,but can you use infantry with some effectively in MP games?.Maybe its my fault and im doing something wrong

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Some images:

SS_19_57_57.jpg

subir imagen

sube fotos

SS_19_58_09.jpg

sube fotos

You can easily detect inf in buildings at 4000m, this is only with Leo 2 GPS,with M1 sep GPS or Leo 2 TC Thermal camera.....bufff.AI can only see inf at -1000m.Not only detecion is a problem, when you shoot them at ,lets say at 2500m, they only stay until death.

Its impossible make any kind of ambush,not only at citys,infantry hiding in woods is well covered with the "sinking",but when enemy is close they always start moving loosing they protection.

People who say inf is useful,its ok for SP because IA is a little stupid,but can you use infantry with some effectively in MP games?.Maybe its my fault and im doing something wrong

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Would it be possible to have buildings themselves artifically mask infantry heat signatures until you are only a few hundred meters out? What i mean is even though they are standing in front of windows their heat signature won't show over a certain distance to better simulate the effects of glass windows and taking cover as such.

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...infantry hiding in woods is well covered with the "sinking",but when enemy is close they always start moving loosing they protection.

They get up, because infantry do not like to get run over by tracked vehicles.

The key to infantry is where they are positioned, and WHEN you decide to expose them to the enemy. Most of the time people get too greedy with them, and want them to open fire at the first sight of a vehicle, or can't help themselves from moving. Let a vehicle show its side first, then sprint into position for RPG shot. Another thing people do is they tell the infantry to fire RPGs at too close of a range (inside the minimum range), so they will not shoot at that point. And in other cases people do not have the patience to have them crawl -- because it takes too long for them I guess.

If vehicles are approaching, then you should prepare for them by being fully rested. Then if they do try to run you over you can sprint away. If you sprint around to the flank, then vehicles will have a difficult time staying alive. Also, put them on hold fire so that you tell them when to shoot at the right moment of your choosing (ambush).

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for me the biggest improvement that could be made to infantry units were such areas up for improvement would be proper urban formations and movements. i.e stacking up on building corners and moving from cover to cover rather than just moving down the middle of the street or getting stuck on fences. The infantry at present are perfectly adequate for open field or woodland fighting but when it comes to urban settings they are really not very useful or realistic in my opinion.

I think a good example of how they 'could' be made to move would be something like in full spectrum warrior (an old squad/fireteam level game based on a us army training program). but even little things like giving them the ability to climb over fences and small walls (even if it was just allowing them to walk through) would help i think.

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Some images:

SS_19_57_57.jpg

subir imagen

sube fotos

SS_19_58_09.jpg

sube fotos

You can easily detect inf in buildings at 4000m, this is only with Leo 2 GPS,with M1 sep GPS or Leo 2 TC Thermal camera.....bufff.AI can only see inf at -1000m.Not only detecion is a problem, when you shoot them at ,lets say at 2500m, they only stay until death.

Its impossible make any kind of ambush,not only at citys,infantry hiding in woods is well covered with the "sinking",but when enemy is close they always start moving loosing they protection.

People who say inf is useful,its ok for SP because IA is a little stupid,but can you use infantry with some effectively in MP games?.Maybe its my fault and im doing something wrong

So maybe the scenario designer needs to put some civilians in there too so its not just hot spot = target but hot spot = person that needs to be identified?

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If I can respond to the infantry and their usefulness, I would say that to me, how useful they are depends upon my mission.

I find infantry to be very useful in defensive situations if the terrain is favorable to their use and they have appropriate weapons. If I have APCs or IFVs to go with them then I can use them in an ambush, pull them back quickly, and use them again in other ambushes,

On the offensive, I find them much more difficult to use.

They're too slow and vulnerable attacking on foot, they can't get close in their vulnerable transports...

The most use I get from them in attacks is when I can have them open the hatches on IFVs like the CV90 so that they can be extra eyes and guns in a fight, and that's only if they can unbutton without disabling the primary weapons.

Right so just like real life?

A Mech Inf assault needs good approaches with cover and concealment, indirect fire support, direct fire support and a bunch of other things to work - otherwise its a re run of Balaclava.

You can't blame the sim (not you personally, but others) if it accurately reflects how fragile a mech inf force is if attacking a position with a strong anti armoured defence across an engagement area.

Edited by Gibsonm

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They get up, because infantry do not like to get run over by tracked vehicles.

No,they move because inf always try to stay perfectly aligned with enemy,its a rotation movement,arround central squad soldier.This central soldier stays hidden and covered,but the other not.This happens even if you use hold ot stay orders.

This is infantry in normal hidding position:

SS_21_19_59.jpg

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And here they start rotating, the central soldier stays hidden

SS_21_20_08.jpg

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SS_21_20_17.jpg

imagen

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So my suggestions are,for infantry in open ground stop that rotating movement,and for infantry in buildings add some hide order.The infantry positions order(prone-kneeking-standing) has no efect for infantry inside buildings,maybe a good option is if you give the prone order ->they hide.

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Right so just like real life?

Yes, pretty much.

I think that in real life infantry might be slightly better on the attack than they are in SB simply because they would move a little differently. They would be OK with breaking out of formation, taking time to hide behind objects that can stop bullets, and have more firepower on the squad level.

Things like the M79, M203, M320, GP25/34 40mm rifle mounted grenade launchers, sniper or DMR rifles, and hand grenades can play a big part in infantry vs. infantry combat particularly when you're on the attack and can't always bring up your HMG or AGL for support.

However, the title of the sim is "Steel Beasts" and not "Filthy Dirty Unwashed Infantry" so while I think this kind of thing would be good to have, it's not really necessary for the sim.

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No,they move because inf always try to stay perfectly aligned with enemy...

Well, you were not specific when the initial post, you simply asked why infantry do not sit still when enemies are near. How near? 10 feet? 100 meters? 1000 meters? Rhetorical questions. With a lack of specifics, I assumed you mean when a vehicle is right next to them.

In regards to keeping the infantry from moving around: I suggest that you take control of them yourself. Don't just sit and watch them, tell them to stop moving, press H to hold fire when you don't want them to shoot, use the ASDW keys to move slowly or sprint when you want to.

Edited by Volcano
clarification

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again something that would be attractive to my USMC realism unit friends would be the AAV-7A1 Amphibious Assault Vehicle. Although i cant see such an addition being justified without a military customer requesting it.

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I am currently editing the bedenbostel map from Ssnake, and I would need the add of a new tool for road edition: split road.

Exact opposition of the merge road tool, it deletes the node and the 2 segments each side, splitting the road in 2 parts, ie to give 2 differents types of road from the original one.

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Oh that good news, I always felt that Bedebostel needed an update, it has some nice terrain, just need to come up to 3.0 standard :)

Thanks for doing the work Froggy!

/KT

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One thing that I would like to see in SB is assigning adjustable properties to objects.

F. ex assigning an object the property

  • fuel depot,
  • ammo depot,
  • medical facility,
  • repair depot etc.

Bridges is another object that should have properties for destroyed.

Why? To have a more dynamic setup for scenario designers so the sim can use the properties of an object to evaluate conditions.

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Oh that good news, I always felt that Bedebostel needed an update, it has some nice terrain, just need to come up to 3.0 standard :)

Thanks for doing the work Froggy!

/KT

Eschede, reworked-current

56e83d026f103_comparativebeedendostelmap

56e83d026f103_comparativebeedendostelmap

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One thing that I would like to see in SB is assigning adjustable properties to objects.

F. ex assigning an object the property

  • fuel depot,
  • ammo depot,
  • medical facility,
  • repair depot etc.

Bridges is another object that should have properties for destroyed.

Why? To have a more dynamic setup for scenario designers so the sim can use the properties of an object to evaluate conditions.

I'm sure you could maybe get an approximation of those facilities using a region encompassing the building or object and the repair if.. settings under the units options menu. i.e "repair if unit this is in region x" or something along those lines. you could even have a delay on it using the 'delay after condition is true' timer. :)

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Well, I wish in my wildest dreams we could have:

More conventional control of infantry, using WASD controls to move, the mouse to look and aim, the ability to designate targets for the remainder of the squad (Similar to "Suppress Here", but rather "Engage hostile targets in this area" if you will), and perhaps some other features to make them a little more playable. Not so that humans can play as individual soldiers, but so that they can play as the squad leader and participate directly in mechanized infantry operations.

Yes I know it's a tank sim, but if we opened that door up we could perhaps attract some additional players and make infantry more effective in offensive missions by letting players get more hands on with them. We already have the ability to play with them, sort of, so why can't we pop our head out the top of a CV90 and start hosing down bad guys with an AK5 ourselves instead of using the clunky "Suppress here" command?

Also, the Strv-103 would be nice to have, but I realize that may be difficult if not impossible.

Speaking more realistically, I'd like any of the following to be included and playable, with or without 3D interiors, to be a counterpart to the T-62/72M of the 60s and 70s. The 3D interior is nice but I don't think we really *NEED* it. See: Leopard AS1, T-62, etc.

An M60A1

An M60A1 RISE Passive, with or without ERA

Or the M60A3 TTS

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