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Steel Beasts: Content Wish List

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On 7/3/2017 at 5:18 AM, Ssnake said:

...?!

 

See above.

Sorry, thought you were still rambling on about the choppers and fragmentation models for some reason.

 

23 hours ago, Gibsonm said:

 

Yep.

 

Please read the post immediately above yours. :)

See above. :P

19 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Well, I'm not asking you to be happy about it, but setting priorities we must.

Seriously implement it the "wrong" way for all I care in the interim.  Make the MILAN launcher an optional weapon the way that MG's are on some other vehicles, integrate it into the gunner's position, whatever, just get it implemented in SOME way and worry about making it perfect later.  At least that'll let us use the Marder in scenarios without having to treat it like a glorified M113 instead of an actual IFV.

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Rambling.

 

 

Well, I guess if that's the level of appreciation for my attempts to illustrate to you the inner workings of the simulation, it is only fair to spend just as much time and diligence on reading your posts.

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9 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Rambling.

 

 

Well, I guess if that's the level of appreciation for my attempts to illustrate to you the inner workings of the simulation, it is only fair to spend just as much time and diligence on reading your posts.

 

I think a more accurate interpretation is that I'm very well aware of the current deficiencies with the HE damage modeling, helicopters, ETC, but at this point I'm beyond feeling the need to complain about it and at the "Yes, sure, whatever, call me when it's fixed" stage.

 

Don't take it personally ;)

 

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Did someone say helicopters??

 

We could really use crewed gunner functionality like the PRO version. 

 

AI helicopter gunners just aren't effective - they sit and watch targets and don't engage, or they miss horribly IF they do engage. 

 

 

 

Edited by Apocalypse 31

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10 hours ago, Apocalypse 31 said:

Did someone say helicopters??

 

We could really use crewed gunner functionality like the PRO version. 

 

AI helicopter gunners just aren't effective - they sit and watch targets and don't engage, or they miss horribly IF they do engage. 

 

 

 

 

+1

 

I think we could pilot them well enough with the controls we have now, but there's no reason NOT to have crewed gunners of some form.

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46 minutes ago, Maj.Hans said:

I think we could pilot them well enough with the controls we have now, but there's no reason NOT to have crewed gunners of some form.

Current controls are great, and I think overall, the choppers are a ton of fun to zip around with. We don't need DCS-level fidelity here, and the PRO version is just that: generic RWS gunsights with functionality that allows players to fire the choppers weapons.  

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20 hours ago, Apocalypse 31 said:

Current controls are great, and I think overall, the choppers are a ton of fun to zip around with. We don't need DCS-level fidelity here, and the PRO version is just that: generic RWS gunsights with functionality that allows players to fire the choppers weapons.  

+1 BUT

Its not feasible till a functioning radar system is modeled for the AD units to counter the gunships.

Otherwise the gunships will be shooting fish in a barrel all they have to do is stay out of range.

 

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58 minutes ago, Marko said:

+1 BUT

Its not feasible till a functioning radar system is modeled for the AD units to counter the gunships.

Otherwise the gunships will be shooting fish in a barrel all they have to do is stay out of range.

 

 

That doesn't mean it's not feasible; it's not unfeasible to create a scenario where tanks face opposition against poorly armed infantry without much in the way of anti-tank weapons, that is to say, it may be 'unbalanced' but not unfeasible. Or in the reverse case: helicopters currently don't have countermeasures like flares to counter the air defenses of the HMMWV Avengers or radar spoof the Tunguska, again, 'unbalanced' perhaps, but not impossible.  eSim may have objections because the pro version is supposed to stand apart in some way though.

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1 hour ago, Captain_Colossus said:

 

That doesn't mean it's not feasible; it's not unfeasible to create a scenario where tanks face opposition against poorly armed infantry without much in the way of anti-tank weapons, that is to say, it may be 'unbalanced' but not unfeasible. Or in the reverse case: helicopters currently don't have countermeasures like flares to counter the air defenses of the HMMWV Avengers or radar spoof the Tunguska, again, 'unbalanced' perhaps, but not impossible.  eSim may have objections because the pro version is supposed to stand apart in some way though.

I agree some scenarios could be made using certain in game assets

But it still would not be a realistic mission you would have to rely on map updates to spot the gunships

but if like me, the mission designer wants to focus on cold war type scenarios.

Then with out long medium and sort range AD assets the mission would not be realistic.

the soviets were well aware there Fighters and other Air assets were inferior to Nato  IMO anyway

So they they created multilayered air umbrellas to cover the movements of there armoured columns they had multiple types of ADA, 

All a player would have to do is place his gunship lets say a tiger at a corner of the map unmask and fire then mask again even the M1A2 sep could not counter it .

You would not even see a well concealed helo in a T-72 while on the move never mind engage it. 

 

I to would like to see the whole spectrum of Air support and ADA  CAS all of it modelled and fully integrated in game.

I have even had some heated debates on this forum in the past on the subject.

I just don't see it happening any time soon unless Esim bite the bullet and introduce a new game engine bigger maps for PE players.

 

 

.

Edited by Marko

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the helos are a mixed bag- when i include them in scenarios, they can throw the balance off but not necessarily in the same way, for instance, tanks like t-62s will focus on trying to shoot them down when you want them to do something else- granted, the helo might be the biggest threat in range and the ai is prioritizing them as such but the very presence of a helo has a strange influence (which i've heard mp games have exploited in the past, getting ground units to waste ammunition trying to bring them down). on the other hand, i've seen rpgs bring them down at various altitudes.

 

to be honest, i think people just want to crew them- suppose that the characteristics were fixed so that ai helicopters were more accurate and more lethal as they should be, there's still that carrot out there, there is still that fun option that pro users have that we don't, just tweaking ai behavior wouldn't satiate that craving in other words to get in them and go blow up the map. B|

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6 hours ago, Marko said:

Its not feasible till a functioning radar system is modeled for the AD units to counter the gunships.

 

I think this would require significantly more work than is really necessary for the focus of Steel Beasts.

 

As the game stands right now, helicopters tend to get absolutely annihilated by dedicated modern ADA. Being able to manually aim and fire from helicopters would increase their lethality, but can the same not be said for a player-manned tank? 

 

In the meantime, try SAM Simulator for all your Soviet ADA needs. :D

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4 hours ago, Captain_Colossus said:

i think people just want to crew them- suppose that the characteristics were fixed so that ai helicopters were more accurate and more lethal as they should be, there's still that carrot out there, there is still that fun option that pro users have that we don't, just tweaking ai behavior wouldn't satiate that craving in other words to get in them and go blow up the map. B|

 

I'm not sure its a "fun option" for pro users, the people who man helos are aviation people and they are training.

 

Its like saying tank crews have fun because they man tanks and do their job.

 

We don't put random people in helos in pro scenarios so they can fly around and have fun. :)

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21 minutes ago, Gibsonm said:

 

I'm not sure its a "fun option" for pro users, the people who man helos are aviation people and they are training.

 

Its like saying tank crews have fun because they man tanks and do their job.

 

We don't put random people in helos in pro scenarios so they can fly around and have fun. :)

come on now- you're just looking for a reason to find something to bitch about. i didn't say that did i- i don't even think most people would assume that's what i meant. know what i mean? or do you really believe that i would think that military customers would request something like that purely for fun- you drew your own conclusion there.

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4 hours ago, Captain_Colossus said:

come on now- you're just looking for a reason to find something to bitch about. i didn't say that did i- i don't even think most people would assume that's what i meant. know what i mean? or do you really believe that i would think that military customers would request something like that purely for fun- you drew your own conclusion there.

+1

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i'm certainly on your side- back some time ago it looked as though the helicopter door gunners would be available in the pe version, but it doesn't seem to be the case; one of my big requests is to show more effects on the environment- displacement of grass, tree branches and so on  combined with the rotor wash (or simply vehicles moving through them).

 

it may be though if it's not in there now, esim doesn't intend it for the personal consumer version. 

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23 hours ago, Marko said:

Its not feasible till a functioning radar system is modeled for the AD units to counter the gunships.

I've used the gunships in game quite a bit. They've never had a hard time getting swatted out of the sky by the current in-game ADA (missiles/cannons) or just regular machine gun fire.

 

Don't really think we need that kind of complexity in SB...yet

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19 hours ago, Gibsonm said:

We don't put random people in helos in pro scenarios so they can fly around and have fun.

 

Curious to know what kind of flight model is in the Pro version?

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1 hour ago, Maj.Hans said:

 

Curious to know what kind of flight model is in the Pro version?

 

Think F8 driving vs F9 driving. Slightly more control over speed. 

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21 hours ago, Apocalypse 31 said:

Just like whats already in the PRO version. 

 

What's in the Pro version, frankly, sucks. That's why it's not in the Personal Edition. The idea always was that we'd make it nicer, one day. But then there are so many areas that need attention - and in my opinion those are of a higher priority because of the implications. To make helicopters fully playable they have to be done right; not a switchology clickfest like DCS of course - but reasonably nice looking cockpit, a basic flight model at least, a few basic instruments, a proper modeling of all weapon stations, and above all, air defense countermeasures.

Those, in turn, would require both a semi-decent radar model and a proper IR sensor simulation for missiles to lock on to helicopters (and to lose lock with flares or chaff, eventually).

 

So, it is a really big task that requires a dedicated development. That in turn requires that we give it a suitably high development priority, which I just don't see possible at the moment. We are committed to working first on the high resolution terrain engine, next on dynamic terrain and the countless implications that it has for units navigating in it. It has implications for data handling, hardware requirements (particularly data storage I/O - if you're planning to buy a new computer, think of large enough SSDs), and some of these changes have implications for the user interface. Only after all that has been dealt with will we have the capacity to even think of something else.

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2 hours ago, Ssnake said:

What's in the Pro version, frankly, sucks.

 

2 hours ago, Ssnake said:

ions. To make helicopters fully playable they have to be done right

 

But they work and they're a ton of fun, and most importantly - they're 100% more effective than the current AI helicopters.

 

2 hours ago, Ssnake said:

So, it is a really big task that requires a dedicated development

 

2 hours ago, Ssnake said:

I just don't see possible at the moment

 

Honestly, when would helicopters ever become a priority within a tank-crew sim? Might as well go with what works and then at least you'd have SOME capability, rather than nothing at all. 

 

Remove the cockpits all together (if its really an issue of ugly cockpits), let players fly from the F8 view (like current PE) and enable the gunners sights only.

 

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I apologize if this was mentioned before, but I could not find anything on this with a cursory search.

 

What was the feasibility of possibly implementing two reverse speeds? A slow reverse and the current 'full' reverse. This could possibly be helpful in certain cases such as when one does not want to back down a slope at full reverse, and perhaps even this issue some people have in backing into trees, treants and small innocent furry creatures with blood-red, demonic eyes and razor sharp teeth and talons.

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The ability to make elevated terrain for roads and railways in the map editor would be sweet. Basically something like making a wadi, but an elevation instead of a depression. This would probably be a bit rough, (as are wadis currently) but perhaps the upcoming terrain resolution update would make this a viable feature?

Cheers

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