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Steel Beasts: Content Wish List

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Posted (edited)
On 10/3/2020 at 9:50 AM, Ssnake said:

We picked one. We're trying to make it work. If it doesn't, we'd pick another. As far as end-users are concerned, it could be powered by a hamster in a wheel ... as long as it works, right?

And as long as you don't sacrifice it on the altar of monopatchism by mistake.

Because then eSim would just kind of....implode, right?

 

You know how it goes the hamster that runs the engine, is sacrificed to progress the_List, and well, i guess you could get another hamster but then you'd have to train it to run at certain speeds, how to hydrate on the move etc

 

You should keep a supply of rabbits or squirrels for sacrificial needs.

 

Anyway

 

***ALL HAIL the_List***

 

:D

Edited by Hedgehog

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Wish: Visual Cues

 

(This is taken from Combat Mission)

 

When using the F5 screen. It would be nice to see which units are in contact via flashing icon. 

 

We get radio reports, but would be even more helpful to have a visual cue.

 

Obviously not realistic, but probably something that could be toggled via realism settings

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Yeah, well, I suppose on low realism - or as a per-scenario setting - that could be made an option.

 

Generally I am rather hesitant by nature to make the map screen the most useful tool and command interface, for that could reinforces the bad habit of making decisions from looking at a map rather than the (virtual) reality. Maps represent only certain parts of reality, while other important factors are just not shown, or may be overlooked. The fundamental design principle in SB Pro is that only by looking at the 3D view you will get a complete picture of the situation.

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2 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Yeah, well, I suppose on low realism - or as a per-scenario setting - that could be made an option.

 

Generally I am rather hesitant by nature to make the map screen the most useful tool and command interface, for that could reinforces the bad habit of making decisions from looking at a map rather than the (virtual) reality. Maps represent only certain parts of reality, while other important factors are just not shown, or may be overlooked. The fundamental design principle in SB Pro is that only by looking at the 3D view you will get a complete picture of the situation.

It very much depends at the echelon. As a Platoon Leader, or as a Vehicle Commander, making decisions based on the reality on the ground makes sense... as you can actually see the ground. At Company level, and especially at BN level or above, you are fighting off of a variety of map, either physical or digital. Key leaders will put themselves at identified points of friction, but at Company and above you are reliant on your subordinate units to paint the picture of the battlefield environment based on good reporting. This works with human players at the Platoon level.

 

"B6, this is B1, my Bravo Section has made contact with enemy infantry!" 

 

However, the AI's reports cannot currently paint the same level of detail by being as concise.

 

"Unit B-14: Contact, Personnel at 0859 7352"

"Unit B-14/ TM A is taking fire"

"Unit B-13/ TM A is taking fire"

"Unit B-14 is taking fire"

"Unit B-14/ TM B is taking fire"

"Unit B-13 is taking fire"

"Unit B-13/ TM B is taking fire"

 

Having the ability to quickly identify elements under fire by a flashing icon isn't any worse than having routes flash red when a unit gets stuck. It makes things a bit easier when managing a large number of AI units. 

 

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5 hours ago, Ssnake said:

for that could reinforces the bad habit of making decisions from looking at a map rather than the (virtual) reality

Looking at the map + receiving reports = how leaders make decisions at every level above the platoon. Company commanders are most times not afforded the luxury to be 'in the fight' , and if they are then they're missing bigger elements (condition setting), and then Battalion and Brigade commanders aren't given the luxury of being in the fight.  Maybe in the 17th and 18th century, with much more limited technology they could get closer, but not anymore. 

 

US Army Leaders at the battalion and above use a tool called a Decision Support Matrix that requires simple reports to make battlefield decisions (IF, AND, THEN)

The Donovian Mechanized Infantry Battalion in the Attack: A Vignette on  Decision Points in the Offense — The Tactical Leader

 

 

2 hours ago, Mirzayev said:

It makes things a bit easier when managing a large number of AI units

This, absolutely. SB is really difficult to play in SP for Company and above. I'm pretty quick on the trigger with RTS-style gaming, but even SB can be very challenging for someone with more than 2 platoons of combat power. 

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Posted (edited)

Year some of us that have played the big scenarios as opfor we almost never see who is shooting us we might notice that we suddenly are missing a lot of units some where and then investigate, like our big 6,5 hour x-mas/newyear a couble of years ago with over 1200 red units on one side and alot of green cant remember how many and about a 150 manned in different degrees.

I was really hard to control when opfor ran into opposition as there where way to many text messages and the only visual clue was that units starting to die if your focus was somewhere else.

 

Also you need to also consider that the F5 function also works as both a BMS and as staff in that context


MD

Edited by Major duck

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1 hour ago, Apocalypse 31 said:

Looking at the map + receiving reports = how leaders make decisions at every level above the platoon. Company commanders are most times not afforded the luxury to be 'in the fight' , and if they are then they're missing bigger elements (condition setting), and then Battalion and Brigade commanders aren't given the luxury of being in the fight.  Maybe in the 17th and 18th century, with much more limited technology they could get closer, but not anymore. 

 

US Army Leaders at the battalion and above use a tool called a Decision Support Matrix that requires simple reports to make battlefield decisions (IF, AND, THEN)

The Donovian Mechanized Infantry Battalion in the Attack: A Vignette on  Decision Points in the Offense — The Tactical Leader

 

 

This, absolutely. SB is really difficult to play in SP for Company and above. I'm pretty quick on the trigger with RTS-style gaming, but even SB can be very challenging for someone with more than 2 platoons of combat power. 

Yeah... SB as in now is overwhelming to almost all the guys in my discord group. Anything larger than platoon usually causes all but me and one another to lose situation awareness and become overwhelmed. Where they start to use F8 + map + manual driving and fighting against AI... (As there is too much to handle  they no longer arent able to make good decisions to make best of it and begin to feel  as if AI cannot  be  relied instead ) And as result... They lose faith. Much of it. 

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Posted (edited)

Also... It doesn't hey that so many

Don't know of hotkey "jump to next engaged unit" and similar hotkeys

 

 

(Too often because those are unavailable because being used by other programs like nvidia shadow play, track it etc..)

 

 

Edited by Lumituisku

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Posted (edited)

This exact map and reporting topic was brought up a couple times in the "complexity for new players" thread.  And its been brought up a couple times in the "content wish as long as its an option" thread about helping with information management if you are controlling multiple units.  So I'm kind of surprised this request is a surprise to the devs.

 

Reducing complexity should include:

1) Map highlights for engaged units, maybe focusing contact, damage, and losses

2) A message window that is larger, detachable, searchable, filtered, and sorted

3) A roster window that let's you immediately see the status of multiple units.  Can show fuel, ammo, casualties, etc. 

4) Pop up windows controlled by scripting that can be configured to jump to a specific unit.

 

This aligns will with the newer overhead external view and can be connected to and enabled by selecting that view option in scenario design.

 

edit:  I'll point out that to me, this feature is most helpful for scenario designing for larger scenarios.  I can't count the number of times I have to restart a scenario in design because too many things happen at once and I missed something happening.  I bet I can cut the number of reloads for scenario testing in half at least.  And as long as SB takes to load and unload a scenario in mission editing, that can be a huge time saver.

Edited by thewood

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Semi-connected to this last topic...getting the AAR replay more granular would be a big help.  And I know, make it optional.  Again, this really helps the scenario designer pick up activity they couldn't focus on.

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Off the top of my head, one that happens most frequently is a unit firing and missing.  Sometimes I don't even know they fired before they are killed because they exposed themselves without result.  It usually takes at least a reload and direct monitoring of the unit to see what happened.  I had one design session where the only reason I knew they fired is they were down a couple rounds.  And even that wasn't easy to track down without multiple reloads of the test session.  This is especially true of infantry being fired on by machine guns.  Only a direct hit on a squad member gets recorded.  And the five second interval can leave a lot of the detail out.  As a scenario designer, I want to be able to make sure I am not putting units in situations where they can either engage or not engage.  Sometimes it can be trail and error on getting them in position.  I want to know if they fired and missed or just didn't fire.

 

I know there are other events I miss unless it happens to be right in the sweet spot.  But the above is the one I run into in almost every test session at least once.

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9 hours ago, thewood said:

This exact map and reporting topic was brought up a couple times in the "complexity for new players" thread.  And its been brought up a couple times in the "content wish as long as its an option" thread about helping with information management if you are controlling multiple units.  So I'm kind of surprised this request is a surprise to the devs.

 

Reducing complexity should include:

 

2) A message window that is larger, detachable, searchable, filtered, and sorted

3) A roster window that let's you immediately see the status of multiple units.  Can show fuel, ammo, casualties, etc. 

edit:  I'll point out that to me, this feature is most helpful for scenario designing for larger scenarios.  I can't count the number of times I have to restart a scenario in design because too many things happen at once and I missed something happening.  I bet I can cut the number of reloads for scenario testing in half at least.  And as long as SB takes to load and unload a scenario in mission editing, that can be a huge time saver.

If those 2 would be implemented (especially the detachable) it would be really nice if they could be put outside the program on a secondary screen , also a copy of the F5 map that could be put on  a second or even a third monitor just like you have your map in front of you so you can take a look while driving or fighting without having to switch between F5, F6, F7 view just to look where your going or where the enemy is there shouldn't be any interaction with them just a status  window where you can setup blocks of info so you can have Log, Status, Map etc available pronto in that way it would be highly flexible  so you can configure it according to your role in the game that being BTN CO, COY CO,PL, TC etc... it could a simple drag and drop from multiple options .
If you need to make changes then you switch to the relevant view

MD
 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Can you give an example?

Thinking back to my last couple of design sessions, One key aspect that is very difficult to get insight into with the current AAR recording granularity is just general situational awareness of the unit right before it fires or is fired on.   Again, just helps the designer get a clearer picture to make micro-adjustments to formations, tactics, position, etc.  It can all be done today, but takes multiple reloads sometimes.

 

And added to the list of features for designer quality of life is a quick side switch hotkey.  This avoids having to go back and forth between the 3D world and the map.  Again, avoids having to reload the scenario to see thi9ngs that are happening quickly.

Edited by thewood

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14 minutes ago, thewood said:

Thinking back to my last couple of design sessions, One key aspect that is very difficult to get insight into with the current AAR recording granularity is just general situational awareness of the unit right before it fires or is fired on.   Again, just helps the designer get a clearer picture to make micro-adjustments to formations, tactics, position, etc.  It can all be done today, but takes multiple reloads sometimes.

 

And added to the list of features for designer quality of life is a quick side switch hotkey.  This avoids having to go back and forth between the 3D world and the map.  Again, avoids having to reload the scenario to see thi9ngs that are happening quickly.

So sitreps by every unit?

 

How should they be filtered?

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Well...I meant in the granularity of the AAR report, as that is what Ssnake asked for.

 

But unrelated to the discussion, a sitrep for every unit is just a sortable and filterable list of units, with ammo, mobility, and maybe a few other parameters.

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While were talking about map displays etc; I do miss not having the info of last know position and direction of travel of enemy units. If I remember correctly Tacops had another map screen to show this, it was along time ago maybe someone else remembers the interface more accurately.

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Wish:  A real join in progress.

 

Current method is disruptive and very buggy. Have had many cases that caused desync on startup from a pause and rejoin

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18 minutes ago, Hedgehog said:

@Ssnake

 

Could I request a wider variety of AP ammo for the Sho't Kal?

Puhlease?

 

Thanks

Wishlist thread...not here

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16 hours ago, Hedgehog said:

Could I request a wider variety of AP ammo for the Sho't Kal?

Like which?

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Like which?

Short answer?

*Heavy Austrian Accent*

All.

 

Longer answer?

OK, not quite all, but not far off :D

The Shot't is the only crewable version of the Centurion, so far.

The Centurion was the Leopard 2 of it's day, it got everywhere, exports sales of, well, a lot.

Therefore, I submit that shouldn't the ammo choices reflect the above statement?

 

1st off

Sho't really could do with the M1040 (Or it's historical equivilent) Canister round, for uh "Historical scenarios" (Well they all are with the Sho't)

 

2nd, which AP rounds would I like?

*Pulls out List*

 

Pfeilpat 78 - for a Swiss Turret bunker (Sho't in an emplacement.)

L64A4  - A UK 105mm AVRE, Hang on....that'd be cool a Sho'turion towing a MICLIC!!!  Sorry, back to the point.

M392*

M728*

M735*

M774*

M833*

*I remember reading the USA sold Israel a LOT of Ammo in 1973, And I imagine Canada purchased US ammo too.

 

PPTFS M / 85 LS - Danish Sho'turion, cos, why not? :)

I wonder what AP round the Swedes used?

 

3rd in line with the above:

Danish HESH, HEAT and WP Rounds, cos again Danish Sho'turion.

M-156-LS (DK HESH)

RGRPT M /87 LS (DK WP)

HEAT-T (DK HEAT, probably a placeholder)

 

4th, And finally the no real reason other than I like the way the numbers match up:

M393A1 HEP-T (US HESH)

 

Danke! :)

 

(doing the research I see you put French boollets in the Leopard 1 tank ammo selection list, I guess a 1A5 does look a bit like an AMX 30....Tres Interesting.)

 

Edited by Hedgehog

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Hedgehog said:

<snip>I guess a 1A5 does look a bit like an AMX 30....Tres Interesting.)

 

Well, they both evolved from the same design criteria, so...

Edited by MAJ_Fubar

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