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Steel Beasts: Content Wish List


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4 hours ago, Gibsonm said:

I'm not sure why you want both the default of "unlimited" and the granularity to specify natures?

Because its nice to have options as a scenario designer.

For example, a scenario that has an attack helicopter and a supply truck = unlimited hellfires for the entire mission, whereas if the truck/s could be configured to carry limited types/natures, this is not an issue (or even an abstracted amount of 'Supply' with ammo types costing a certain amount of 'Supply').

Its not a new or unproven concept within games, there are many examples in other games of how this could be implemented.

 

4 hours ago, Gibsonm said:

Do you really want a situation where your tank (which is equipped with say 120mm DM63) and the guy on the truck says "sorry we only have DM53, move along"?

 Again, implementing a limit to the quantity of 'Supply' in a truck neednt be 'Logistics Simulator 2022', it could be abstracted as are many other elements within SB.

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5 minutes ago, Gibsonm said:

OK if you want a checklist for every supply truck where you need to tick or cross next to every item from this list: https://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php?title=Ammunition_Data 

 

Then be my guest.

 

Did i say that i wanted that? No.

Did the OP request this? No.

 

Only you have introduced this model, which i already addressed in my previous post (abstraction).

 

The guys at esim are obviously capable and intelligent people, im sure that the concept of limited supply could be implemented (without it being a sce designers nightmare) if they were able and willing to implement it.

Edited by Bond_Villian
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27 minutes ago, Bond_Villian said:

Did the OP request this? No.

 

He wrote:

 

for supply trucks, possibility to choose ammo type and quantity carried for each one

 

How else do you achieve the granularity (what exact natures are carried on each and every truck) he wants????

 

You can certainly currently do some work arounds with the product as is:

 

Use different trucks for different broad types of ammunition (e.g. MAN for Tank, HEMTT for Helos). that way the play knows which type of truck carries "their" ammunition. This doesn't give the granularity that he wanted, but the player will know that if they land their helo near the HEMTT they can reload cannon, rocket and ATGM ammunition.

 

You can further constrain this so that callsign "X" needs to be in the designated FARP region in order for the resupply to happen (i.e. they can't just land next to a MAN truck).

 

But these are workarounds and wont give him the ability to say Truck X is carrying 12 Hellfires.

 

Edited by Gibsonm
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24 minutes ago, Gibsonm said:

He wrote:

 

for supply trucks, possibility to choose ammo type and quantity carried for each one

 

How else do you achieve the granularity (what exact natures are carried on each and every truck) he wants????

 

I dont interpret such a degree of specificity in the OP's wish. As i see it , limited supply could be achieved through an abstraction/ simplification such as;

 

"for supply trucks, possibility to choose ammo type { "type" being defined by an ammunition class system, ie; 'Tank Main Gun' /  'ATGM'  /  'Small Arms' / 'Artillery' etc }  and quantity carried { "quantity carried" being defined by an abstraction such as a variable quantity of 'Supply Points' carried by each truck, with point values assigned to the various types/classes, as above } for each one."

 

Edited by Bond_Villian
typo
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10 minutes ago, Bond_Villian said:

 

I dont interpret such a degree of specificity in the OP's wish. As i see it , limited supply could be achieved through an abstraction/ simplification such as;

 

"for supply trucks, possibility to choose ammo type { "type" being defined by an ammunition class system, ie; 'Tank Main Gun' /  'ATGM'  /  'Small Arms' / 'Artillery' etc }  and quantity carried { "quantity carried" being defined by an abstraction such as a variable quantity of 'Supply Points' carried by each truck, with point values assigned to the various types/classes, as above } for each one."

 

 

All I can work off is what he typed.

 

I don't have the crystal ball that you have where you have defined what he means by "type" and "quantity carried" etc.

 

To me in my world 7.62mm link 4BIT (7.62mm link 4 Ball, 1 Trace) and 7.62mm link Ball (all ball, no trace) are different types of MG ammunition.

 

If I order 7.62mm link Ball, that's what I get. If I got 7.62mm link 4BIT instead then something is wrong.

 

The same applies to tank rounds.

 

120mm APFSDS-TP is different to 120mm APFSDS - one is a training round, the other isn't.

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1 hour ago, Bond_Villian said:

Crew members taking the place of incapacitated driver is not currently modelled/ abstracted. I would very much like to see this too, its another strange inconsistency within SB that really grinds my gears ;)

 

Removing incapable driver from drivers compartment, 2-3 crew members, 5-50 min, so AFV is out of action most likely.

 

To have a option to replace dr with other crew member, and operate said AFV less 1 member,......ah, no thanks. 

 

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24 minutes ago, Bond_Villian said:

 

This.

well it did start as a tank sim,and is still primarily an CA sim.

Do you know whay goes into calling an Arty strike?I personally would rather gun a MBT,AFV or APC not play combat controller.

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18 minutes ago, 12Alfa said:

To have a option to replace dr with other crew member, and operate said AFV less 1 member,......ah, no thanks.

 

Being a sitting target in a tank that has a damaged main gun and an incapacitated driver....no thanks!

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It strikes me that limiting ammo in supply Vehicles could be done without having to resort to the whole ammo list. As Zero suggested there are obvious categories such as Tank Main gun, Auto Canon, ATGM, Small arms etc. Limiting the amount could be done based on mass and volume of a truck's carrying capacity and Mass / volume of Ammo. This could then have interpretations similar to the abstractions for digging battle positions where you have Very fast, fast and realistic.  So in the mission editor you could have similar things for supply like 2x capacity, 1.5x capacity and Realistic capacity. This could be said to be allowing for a truck to represent 2 trucks or 3 trucks etc.

 

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12 hours ago, Gibsonm said:

 

I'm not sure why you want both the default of "unlimited" and the granularity to specify natures?

 

Why would a scenario designer go to all the effort of specifying truck X has 5.56, truck Y has 7.62 if all you want is the same as the one truck carries "unlimited quantities of everything" approach?

 

There are hundreds if not thousands of different ammunition natures in use across the sim:

 

Small arms.

40mm grenades.

Claymores.

Hand held short range anti armour weapons.

Longer range RCL type weapons.

ATGMs.

Mortar ammunition.

Artillery ammunition.

IFV ammunition.

Tk ammunition.

 

There's a list here: https://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php?title=Ammunition_Data

 

Do you really want a situation where your tank (which is equipped with say 120mm DM63) and the guy on the truck says "sorry we only have DM53, move along"?

 

 

 

 

 

 

G4: "...sorry, we can not book this  ammuntion to you. Your unit is not listed as receiving entity for this batch."

 

OC:"Damn it, forget the booking, just hand them over to me, the enemy is on our heels"

 

G4:" Sorry, but you know, before ammunition can be moved IRL, it needs to be moved in SAP."

 

OC:"But this is an emergency..."

 

G4:" Ah, why didn't you tell that in the first place. In that case, we can make a VTT request...and get you listed as receiver under emergency measures."

 

OC:" Good , lets do that..."

 

G4:" Right away Sir. Current processing time for the VTT request is 90 days...." 

Edited by Grenny
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6 hours ago, Gibsonm said:

 

All I can work off is what he typed.

 

I don't have the crystal ball that you have where you have defined what he means by "type" and "quantity carried" etc.

 

To me in my world 7.62mm link 4BIT (7.62mm link 4 Ball, 1 Trace) and 7.62mm link Ball (all ball, no trace) are different types of MG ammunition.

 

If I order 7.62mm link Ball, that's what I get. If I got 7.62mm link 4BIT instead then something is wrong.

 

The same applies to tank rounds.

 

120mm APFSDS-TP is different to 120mm APFSDS - one is a training round, the other isn't.

Well, we have this type of packages, where one supply rate of a certain troop-type is batched onto one truck or detachable flat-bed.

But for this you'd have to  design that supply rate for every unit selection you put on the map.

 

So the only halfwhat feasable way it see, is to have a truck attached to a company, and autogenerate a loadout that equals and extra-combat load for each vehicle in that company....

(...but then, somehow add another truck if that would exeed the max loadout of one truck??)

 

I don't know. Sounds like a new game to me. SB log PE 😉

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3 hours ago, Grenny said:

G4: "...sorry, we can not book this  ammuntion to you. Your unit is not listed as receiving entity for this batch."

 

OC:"Damn it, forget the booking, just hand them over to me, the enemy is on our heels"

 

G4:" Sorry, but you know, before ammunition can be moved IRL, it needs to be moved in SAP."

 

OC:"But this is an emergency..."

 

G4:" Ah, why didn't you tell that in the first place. In that case, we can make a VTT request...and get you listed as receiver under emergency measures."

 

OC:" Good , lets do that..."

 

G4:" Right away Sir. Current processing time for the VTT request is 90 days...." 

 

Ah so you watched Zulu Dawn (Isandlwana recently)?

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18 hours ago, DarkAngel said:

It strikes me that limiting ammo in supply Vehicles could be done without having to resort to the whole ammo list. As Zero suggested there are obvious categories such as Tank Main gun, Auto Canon, ATGM, Small arms etc. Limiting the amount could be done based on mass and volume of a truck's carrying capacity and Mass / volume of Ammo. This could then have interpretations similar to the abstractions for digging battle positions where you have Very fast, fast and realistic.  So in the mission editor you could have similar things for supply like 2x capacity, 1.5x capacity and Realistic capacity. This could be said to be allowing for a truck to represent 2 trucks or 3 trucks etc.

 

So I did some calculations based on the 3d model for the in game ural 4320 supply:-

 

The listed carrying capacity for the Ural 4320 is 5000kg. In the cargo area of the truck I was able to fit a box with dimensions 1.5m x 1.01m x 0.57m giving a total volume of 0.86355 m3 (cubic meters). One of my bugbears is these trucks being able to reload an Apache helicopter with Hellfires (as was mentioned in a previous post). The hellfire has a Box dimension of 1.62m x 0.23m x 0.23m (assuming you would have them in some sort of container not just thrown in haphazardly). for a total Volume of 0.085698 m3. The mass though is only 49kg (lets say 50kg including packaging). Volume wise this gives a total (even though the length is greater than the Ural's carrying capacity Shhhh ;) ) of 10 hellfires yet the mass is only 500kg. This makes me sure you would have to consider mass and volume for stored rounds otherwise the ural would be able to carry 100 hellfires( @50kg each ) at a volume of 8.5698m3 or 9.9x the volume the truck could handle. Now sure you could get anal retentive and say "meh the ural couldn't carry the missile because it's too big". Regardless of this having a capacity for only 10 Hellfires and NOTHING ELSE would seem a decent enough abstraction to limit the resupply capability.

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