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Hedge, I just had to change the CD....

BTW: That´s the right Way to pull a broken Tank out of Combat Zone.....

Originally Posted by aj88buett

Question: I've seen this a thousand times on here [the SB forum] but can't seem to figure out what all of the hype is about. I am curious to know just to get on the same level. Why does everyone and their dog want a cast-turret Leo-1?

Why?

Cast Turret Version is the most common Leopard 1 Typ, so if you want to build a correct Cold War Sce. you will need the Cast Turret One.

It should be easy to implement it to SB, we "just" need a new Tank Model (what should be "no Problem" as Ssnake said) and a new Turret Top Skin. The Rest exist already in SB.

I serve most of my active Duty on this Beauty.

Years ago several User post endless wishes for a crew able T 72 and at least they get one, now I want a Cast Turret Leo 1, so what ?!

I have no Dog. ;-=

Nice, that not everybody is ignoring me after my short excurs to german Style Boresighting ;-)

...

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0001.JPG.31986360e949762ec223d578c1a79e2

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Hedge, I just had to change the CD....

BTW: That´s the right Way to pull a broken Tank out of Combat Zone.....

Why?

Cast Turret Version is the most common Leopard 1 Typ, so if you want to build a correct Cold War Sce. you will need the Cast Turret One.

It should be easy to implement it to SB, we "just" need a new Tank Model (what should be "no Problem" as Ssnake said) and a new Turret Top Skin. The Rest exist already in SB.

I serve most of my active Duty on this Beauty.

Years ago several User post endless wishes for a crew able T 72 and at least they get one, now I want a Cast Turret Leo 1, so what ?!

I have no Dog. ;-=

Nice, that not everybody is ignoring me after my short excurs to german Style Boresighting ;-)

...

Bergedeichsel und Schnellbergevorrichtung, Jupp, thats something we need!!

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Hedge, I just had to change the CD....

BTW: That´s the right Way to pull a broken Tank out of Combat Zone.....

Why?

Cast Turret Version is the most common Leopard 1 Typ, so if you want to build a correct Cold War Sce. you will need the Cast Turret One.

...

So is that the 1A3 version ?

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Nope, 1A5...you see the bolted on armour at the turret side?

Hmm, sorry for my ignorance.

So the Leo 1A5 has two turret styles ?

The 1A5dk thats in game and then also a cast turret version ?

Just read that the 1A5 entered service in 87.

Perhaps we should have an earlier version in game as well ? or is that the AS1 ?

Might be best if they just bite the bullet and make em all :)

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Leo 1 with cast turret???

What we really need is a crewable M-60A1. Last of the real tanks before all these new Star Trek Enterprise tanks started coming out.

No really? How about a crewable M-60A1? Puttin' those up against the waves of T-62's that would have flooded thru the Fulda gap in '71 thru about '76 wouldn't have been a NATO cake walk like it is now.

The powers that be told us back then that we weren't allowed to die until we'd taken out at least 5 WP tanks. That was our share and the powers that be weren't joking.

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Hmm, sorry for my ignorance.

So the Leo 1A5 has two turret styles ?

The 1A5dk thats in game and then also a cast turret version ?

Just read that the 1A5 entered service in 87.

Perhaps we should have an earlier version in game as well ? or is that the AS1 ?

Might be best if they just bite the bullet and make em all :)

leopard 1A5 has only one turret style the one with bolted on armour.

the one in steel beasts is the danish leopard 1A5DK, which is the upgraded leopard 1A3.

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Leo 1 with cast turret???

What we really need is a crewable M-60A1. Last of the real tanks before all these new Star Trek Enterprise tanks started coming out.

No really? How about a crewable M-60A1? Puttin' those up against the waves of T-62's that would have flooded thru the Fulda gap in '71 thru about '76 wouldn't have been a NATO cake walk like it is now.

The powers that be told us back then that we weren't allowed to die until we'd taken out at least 5 WP tanks. That was our share and the powers that be weren't joking.

That's the type of scenario i would really like to take part in. Or better still a whole campaign.

Set in that period .it would sort the men from the boys.LoL

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That's the type of scenario i would really like to take part in. Or better still a whole campaign.

Set in that period .it would sort the men from the boys.LoL

I'm more of a mid- to late-80s man myself but I admit a Chieftain Mk.5 in Steel Beasts could tempt me to become more interested in this period ;)

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I'm more of a mid- to late-80s man myself but I admit a Chieftain Mk.5 in Steel Beasts could tempt me to become more interested in this period ;)

I don't know why i like that period.i guess i think you had to be a more skillful gunner.

But for anybody who would like to see what it would be like try using the gunners auxiliary sight on a fast moving target.not the exact same but it would give you an idea what it would have been like and how difficult it would have been to hit targets at ranges considered relatively short by modern standards.i guess.

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Vehicle skin mod folders organized like the infantry uniforms- that way you don't have to keep swapping different skins for a given theme, you select the nationality and the theme in the mission. This also means you can add more national folders into the skins directory that the mission editor recognizes.

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I don't know why i like that period.i guess i think you had to be a more skillful gunner.

But for anybody who would like to see what it would be like try using the gunners auxiliary sight on a fast moving target.not the exact same but it would give you an idea what it would have been like and how difficult it would have been to hit targets at ranges considered relatively short by modern standards.i guess.

Well try the Tank range with the fire control set to "Manual"

(This is the '/' key) and watch in amazement how quickly your gunnery rating falls through the floor. :eek2:

(If you can master the first round hit with HESH, you sir, are a master.)

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Been there done that, with "steam gunnery" with manual traverse, elevation, range estimation and looking for darker shadows in the dark.

More than happy to now slacken off and go to the "point and shoot" mode. :)

Me too - although in my case it's not a case of 'slacken off' but needing all the help I can get. :) I think that with the modern business of 'first shot kill' (or at least 'first shot hit') many people don't appreciate how innacurate gunnery was in the 'pre computer/laser' period. I seem to remember reading in 'King of the Killing Zone', that it took on average 13(!) rounds for a tank to hit another at ranges over 1km. (That's in battle, not on the range). Comments based on your experience of steam gunnery would be most welcome.

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Comments based on your experience of steam gunnery would be most welcome.

With practice comes the art of "Kentucky Windage"

A good person to ask would be a chap called Badgerdog,

I believe he said he had his training on a Sherman.

(Post-war)

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A good person to ask would be a chap called Badgerdog,

I believe he said he had his training on a Sherman.

(Post-war)

Well you don't need to go that far back. :o

I started life in a 76mm Scorpion turret on top of a M113A1 (a FSV, then MRV as we used to call them) in the early 80s.

It had all the manual stuff I mentioned.

Then I moved to Leo 1 which was light years ahead (but had worse night optics than the Scorpion) and then finally onto the "Lazyboy" (everything done for you) M1.

But those early skills, "gunner's determination", etc. makes it a lot easier when we deliberately turn things off, whereas the new guys are left floundering. :)

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Well you don't need to go that far back. :o

I started life in a 76mm Scorpion turret on top of a M113A1 (a FSV, then MRV as we used to call them) in the early 80s.

It had all the manual stuff I mentioned.

Then I moved to Leo 1 which was light years ahead (but had worse night optics than the Scorpion) and then finally onto the "Lazyboy" (everything done for you) M1.

But those early skills, "gunner's determination", etc. makes it a lot easier when we deliberately turn things off, whereas the new guys are left floundering. :)

Have reached the God like awesomeness of hip shooting a target 1200m away using the TC override with your swede out of the hatch?

And hitting :)

(It helps to make the Squaddies feel warm and fuzzy inside, knowing you have an awesome CO who can hip shoot a tank a battle sight ranges, as well as leadership ability, man management and all that jazz, but mainly the hip shooting thing. :) )

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Started my Tanker life on AMX30B with optical rangefinder and no FCS. Then Moved to AMX30B2, with a basic FCS (lead and laser rangefinder, but manual repointing after lase, and no help for TC engagement).

Last with Leclerc, and a myriad of technicals helps for gunnery;

With a passage on AML90, ERC90, VAB with 20mm canon, all without FCS

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Well you don't need to go that far back. :o

I started life in a 76mm Scorpion turret on top of a M113A1 (a FSV, then MRV as we used to call them) in the early 80s.

It had all the manual stuff I mentioned.

Then I moved to Leo 1 which was light years ahead (but had worse night optics than the Scorpion) and then finally onto the "Lazyboy" (everything done for you) M1.

But those early skills, "gunner's determination", etc. makes it a lot easier when we deliberately turn things off, whereas the new guys are left floundering. :)

Any comments on the claim in the book I mentioned that prior to lazer range finding computational electronics it took several rounds for even the best gunners to get the range to the target and start landing hits? And I'd be most interested to know your opinion of the ranging machine gun versus the 'wide base' optical range finders.

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Have reached the God like awesomeness of hip shooting a target 1200m away using the TC override with your swede out of the hatch?

And hitting :)

(It helps to make the Squaddies feel warm and fuzzy inside, knowing you have an awesome CO who can hip shoot a tank a battle sight ranges, as well as leadership ability, man management and all that jazz, but mainly the hip shooting thing. :) )

Well 1200 is "battle sabot" anyway so you don't need a FCS, just lay on the target and fire (lasing at that range is a waste of time as the trajectory is flat).

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