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Hello everyone! :bigsmile:

Just purchased, and I'm looking forward to playing a realistic tank sim!

A little background on myself. I'm mainly a flight simmer (WWII) and we run the ATAG server for IL2 Cliffs of Dover, a flight sim - (See it here -

) oddly enough that is getting drivable vehicles/tanks/AAA etc. So basically I really enjoy flying, but also always wanted a great tank sim.

My questions are is there any sort of update in the works to be able to tie MP in an ongoing rejoinable scenario? - Respawn / join the server any time you want? The reason I ask is because A.) that's what I'm used to, and this also opens up a whole new experience online, and B.) we run a hefty dedicated server and have a 500 slot TS3 - dedi server specs:

-Two Intel Xeon X5690 processors (twelve physical 3.46ghz cores on QPI + hyperthreading + turbo->3.73ghz)

-48 GB registered DDR3 ECC memory

-10gbps upload/download all fiber network

Yes - It's HAL9000!

And we'd love to be able to host something like this that could have an ongoing massive online experience. Again, I may be putting the cart before the horse, but if you look at what WoT (don't hate me, I hate it as well) has done (player wise) having the ability to have a massive online dynamic scenario (rotating missions / server always up etc.) opens up a whole new influx of community members / players / money for dev support etc.

Either way, I'm looking forward to learning all the ins and outs of realistic tanking. But if something like dedi server support or other modes besides coop became available, I'd be hosting for this community in a heart beat.

If there are any fliers amongst this group you can check us out here: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum

I hope to some day be able to join one of this community's online events. Hopefully I won't be too noobish on TS3. But having a realistic online tank experience just makes me drool a bit.

Thanks for your time. And hopefully my usb codereader comes soon :)

PS - Sorry in advance if these questions have already been asked and answered. I'm new, be gentle! :bangin:

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Hello everyone! :bigsmile:

Just purchased, and I'm looking forward to playing a realistic tank sim!

A little background on myself. I'm mainly a flight simmer (WWII) and we run the ATAG server for IL2 Cliffs of Dover, a flight sim - (See it here -

) oddly enough that is getting drivable vehicles/tanks/AAA etc. So basically I really enjoy flying, but also always wanted a great tank sim.

My questions are is there any sort of update in the works to be able to tie MP in an ongoing rejoinable scenario? - Respawn / join the server any time you want? The reason I ask is because A.) that's what I'm used to, and this also opens up a whole new experience online, and B.) we run a hefty dedicated server and have a 500 slot TS3 - dedi server specs:

Hi Bliss

I'm a member of 56RAF and used to be a regular when we were in IL2. But currently don't play CloD because of the various frustrations - such as frequent CTDs - that have been well documented.

Your ATAG server is what 56RAF call a dogfight server; dropping in anytime is perfectly normal. But as I'm sure you know, you can't do that with coops - and that is what SB is all about - structured operations. As Ssnake said in the referred to thread, SB is not a 'shooter'.

That said, I'm having the best time of my entire simming career in here. The immersion level is very high as most units (certainly mine) use RL protocols, radio procedure etc. It takes a bit of work to get up to speed but is well worth it IMHO.

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Hi fellas - Thanks for the replies.

The reason I brought it up is because reading the other thread didn't really bring a sure fire answer. I understand the need/want for structured play and COOP's bring that to the table. But there's many people out there, like me, that don't have a set schedule to meet up at a certain time on a certain date to enjoy the MP side of things.

After seeing how detailed/realistic this is, yes, even though this is military driven filtered down to civilian use, I do see a huge opportunity for others that just want to be able to hop into a server from time to time, anytime they want. Maybe I'm a bit different than most here, in the aspect that I play simulators as a break from reality. The less concentration, the better IMO. In other words, grab a beer and have some fun.

I just see the possibilities of a realistic sim getting huge online numbers, and missions varying from anything to the most realistic 6 hours long sessions, to the "you spawn in and within 20 minutes you are in some sort of action" scenarios. Having that ability would cater to both sides.

Again, I don't even have the code reader yet, so I'm more than likely putting the cart before the horse, but many a RL tank battle was done with hundreds of tanks. I just see a 8 person limit or 16 person limit (can't remember what I read) as being a bit of a let down simply because the tanks themselves are soo realistic.

Anyhow, I'm sure I'll have a blast with this. I just never saw a definite "no" or "yes" to this question from a developer. If this is a possibility in the future, great. If not, it's not that big of a deal. I'm just a bit of a dreamer and would like to recreate a real ground war, all player filled.

Thanks again,

Bliss

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Once you get ProPe join a friday night game or participate in a large CO-OP. Then Command a few battles with 10 or so players on your team and ask yourself how you would deal with drop in players who have no idea what the situation is they are dropping into. Success depends on every player on your team being on the same page. The Co would have to pull his attention away from where It should be and get the drop in up to speed on a plan that has probably already changed since contact with the enemy.

A good strategy would be to have a bunch of people to drop in on the enemies side and start asking alot of questions. "what is going on?", "why is that happening?", "Why am I doing this?", How did the enemy get there?", I thought We where defending?" Then you just time your attack to happen at the same time the drop in is taking attention away from the enemy Co.

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I just see a 8 person limit or 16 person limit (can't remember what I read) as being a bit of a let down simply because the tanks themselves are soo realistic.

So is the point personal enjoyment? Do you always enjoy a game more with 50 random strangers and never with 4 to 5 regulars who are on the same page?

As stated else where....the game has 3 stages ....a planning stage, a combat stage ,and an after action review. Having a 'drop in' server would negate stages 1 and 3 .That would end up removing much of its strengths ...... those stages probaly contribute to 70% of a missions success rate. And if you fail, will hopefully allow you too succeed next time

The player limit doesn't equate to the number of units you can control in game.

We often have battalion vs battalion battles with 8 people.....and with the lethality of the weapons, you are going to want as many units as possible under your command.

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The less concentration, the better IMO. In other words, grab a beer and have some fun. Bliss

Bliss

There is almost certainly a market for the sort of thing you are looking for. In fact, isn't WWII Online pretty much it? I've never played it but those in 56RAF who have are very compimentary. But Steel Beasts, a hardcore sim that is very similar (or so I'm told) to the software used by NATO countries to train their real tankies is a totally different animal.

Whereas on most WWII flight sims you can jump in to any WWII fighter and give a reasonable, if not expert, account of yourself because the software is written specifically to allow that, you can't just jump from a Leopard 2A5 into a T72 in SB and expect to last for more than 5min. That's not only because the gunnery is quite different, the way the the tank commander 'hands off' turret control to the AI guner and vice versa, for example - is subtly different in each type.

I know all this sounds a bit negative, but as an experienced flight simmer I am in a good position to compare the two.

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I think that someone who wants the drop-in-at-any-time approach should try writing a few scenarios that would support the concept. Get four or more other guys to agree to test them by running some MP games without allowing for a planning phase. Everyone jumps into a tank at the start and off the game goes. Any communication or command structure on either side must be created ad-hoc. At most, one person is designated the commander for a given side, but no one is to be admonished for ignoring the commander's wishes and going it alone.

If that is tried and more than a handful of people say it was fun and they still want a drop-in-at-any-time server, than it is probably worth further discussion on the matter. Right now, all discussion on the matter is based on assumptions that may or may not apply to whether a sizable number of people would really enjoy such a setup.

Remember there was vocal opposition to a playable T-72, on the basis that "no one would have any fun playing a T-72 in Steel Beasts." It seems that more than a few people who believed the T-72 would be a waste of time have found it to be quite fun to play. Maybe the same is true for a drop-in-at-any-time server for SB.

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I think that someone who wants the drop-in-at-any-time approach should try writing a few scenarios that would support the concept. Get four or more other guys to agree to test them by running some MP games without allowing for a planning phase.

Already doing it and enjoying it with a few friends.. we do communicate on TS though.. I think most of us "newbs" do this instead of reading briefings....:) Even used the T72 and some fascam protecting a town that some M1ha's are trying to take.. actually quite fun being on the weaker side and thinking before sticking our heads out..but not really planning except in real time.

you can't just jump from a Leopard 2A5 into a T72 in SB and expect to last for more than 5min. That's not only because the gunnery is quite different, the way the the tank commander 'hands off' turret control to the AI guner and vice versa, for example - is subtly different in each type.

Well, actually that's exactly the same as IL-2 and CloD going from Hurricane, spit, Bomber, 109 etc. etc. and also the same in RoF and their assorted aircraft up to and including multiple seated bombers. Not all controls are always the same. least mention the startup sequences one learns in DCS blackshark and A10-Warthog..then combining Lockon flaming cliffs to blackshark for confusion.. really, this title is not much different than any of them in execution other than throwing in the Company of Heroes strategy side..

I can't help but to respond, although I am quite content if the funding is unavailable for these features. I think most that play this game have played it in one style for so long, they miss the bigger picture thinking the masses will ruin it. That's up to the servers and admin.. which you could not change at all if so inclined and keep current server and admin you are use to.

This game shouts dropin and 24/7 servers so much.. I believe it's the biggest hold back of a much larger title. Yes, VOIP or present Teamspeak servers are the best bet and even with dropin is still the best platform for organizing.

And, Granted, those that do support it want it "left alone" and we all hate change when we feel comfy in our world.

Again, Im just ramblin.. it can stay exactly as it is and I will still be playing it.. I love the tanks, the single player and moments in the network play with close friends I have experinced so far!! I truely don't want to be in a "group", "clan" etc though.

IL-2 is also a co-op type game..always has been. Flying formation to a missions end is the most satisfying part of IL-2. It basicly depends on those that join the game and how the server is run and if the admin force playing to mission goal or not.

Dogfights are fun and accepted in IL-2 and RoF. Fun is also found in tank versus tank ala Darkest Hour. Do you really always need to have a company on field? In the military side and classroom, probably but scenarios do change in size.. This is the spin off no? For "public" consumption and bending towards game play. even if currently limited to 8 players.

The only difference in drop-in servers is you eliminate the "need" for lobbies if you "wish" to, again server choice if kept available as in RoF.

The scenario design would delegate the added features.. granted it would/may need adjusting. The designer can decide if well, 20 more tank platoons can be added.. 5 bradley groupings.. what's available is whats available. That's how Rise of Flight does it. Not all planes are available.. depends on the start point. And still plenty for all that drop in.

IL-2 basicly does this too.. certain planes at certain fields and limited for the bombing or fly escort, attack force etc.

Even in the present state it could be set for CO gives out (if someone holds that role) or they sit in the back till someone joins. Again RoF has both ways of play within the same game and the servers choice to which is played.

The best benefit the old crowd might be looking past the forest for is.. when your in action and someone looses connection. They can get back into the fight on reconnect. Plus you do not have to "wait" for the current game to end to get into action and enjoy the game when you cannot meet a deadline for game starts.

We already have the briefing and terrain screens, so even the new dropin knows what is going on. He/She also sees the terrain map and sees who needs the most support from the ongoing battle displayed on entry as those already ingame see it.

It's really not that far of a grasp than some may think and only a plus for sales. The idea of both ways to play would just make it such a more acceptable spin off of a fine military sim.

Again, I have yet to play a friday nite fight but do understand the classroom/plan that has become the normal which I been part of in Arma before... I also see a very very small community in a game that been around for years.. it deserves a bigger crowd and 24/7 servers people can join on their schedules which I most certainly believe holds this game back from the populous more than the pricing. It's just something the development should keep in mind for the future. The size of company and the demand of contracts on the military side could hold these features up another 10 years and that to is fine as long as the trickles keep comming..:)

oops..was gonna remain mum on this subject..

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We already have the briefing and terrain screens, so even the new dropin knows what is going on. He/She also sees the terrain map and sees who needs the most support from the ongoing battle displayed on entry as those already ingame see it.

In that case why have a Co or a planning phase at all.

A breifing and a map of the terrain does not a plan make. The only things certain in the breif that will carry to the battle are Time limit, Visibility, no go zones, type of ammo, and, support if any. The Briefing is just info for the Co to take into account so He can make a plan that may or may not follow the breifing.

An area the drop in thinks needs support may be that way by design of the Co's plan. The Co would still need to explain the situation to the drop in player. The more complex the battle the more time needed to explain and the more attention taken from Coing the battle.

If a drop in feature happens that is fine with me. The people that want it will join it and those that don't won't.

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In that case why have a Co or a planning phase at all.

Umm I agree ...:) How long does it take to tell me guard here or take the left flank? On a TS channel it's instant..

Co..Brun fuby is in trouble..fall back and move over to the left flank.. case solved..

in actuality, I believe we are talking different size scenarios..one taking 20-40 mins and those taking a few hours on one drive or defense. Again, that would be server and scenario to dictate.

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Umm I agree ...:)

Turn up on a "Friday night" (depending on time zone) and find out.

The networking layer already has constraints and I suspect adding the coding for all this random "join when you want to" approach would just add more to that.

Plus who is going to house and pay for the server farms you want to support this?

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Turn up on a "Friday night" (depending on time zone) and find out.

The networking layer already hasconstraints and I suspect adding the coding for all this randome "join when you want to" approach would just add more to that.

Pluse who is going to house and pay for the server farms you want to support this?

Welp, I plan on showing up eventually..hopefully this coming Friday.. I understand 100% the right CO can take 30min to an hour to brief a plan.. in the end, I assume it depends on scenario size.

As for who flips the server bills? As in the past.. all these groups that wish to have a server up. I never have a problem spending up to 100.00 per month if I enjoy a game.. averaging usually about 1.00 per slot (about 16 to 50 bucks game dependent) or you get a dedicated server for around 150.00 on many major network setup for games and run remote admin into them.. ie hypernia, gameservers.com etc etc... we always do it..in fact smaller games, I have a Evochron server running right now on another setup sharing broadband with hardly any side effects..it's only 20 players and takes little bandwidth..it's all in design and type of game.. IL-2 took a whole dedicated server we had up for years.. cod about 2-3 servers on a box.. Darkest Hour you could do a few.. people that enjoy game playing..never mind paying for their fun.. no difference then that set of PING clubs laying in the trunk..

Edited by Fuby
i spelt bad always...mind over runs fingers..
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Umm I agree ...:) How long does it take to tell me guard here or take the left flank? On a TS channel it's instant..

Co..Brun fuby is in trouble..fall back and move over to the left flank.. case solved..

in actuality, I believe we are talking different size scenarios..one taking 20-40 mins and those taking a few hours on one drive or defense. Again, that would be server and scenario to dictate.

As with anything else it has good points and a down side.

On the up side we can have late comers join in on the mission.

How ever, they are behind the 8ball. Given that all missions are not complex it will work. But as a CO I would not want after planing and issuing orders, getting a back brief, have graphics drawn, questions answered to have a new person assigned to my order of battle. It's time consuming for a small battle (TGIF) but could be of value in a large co-op mission (LNOTS).

So we would have to weight the pros and cons. We now as it stands go back for late comers and those who drop. It's not much of a problem if we are in the planning phase or just started. How ever , when in a mission for a hour or so I could see this as a disruption in the flow of the battle for each side.

I would guess that this has to be looked at very carefully. I would hope the ESim will find a solution's that works, they are know to solve these kinds of issues , and have I think have a great track record.

Lets see wait till this is worked out to what we can use without any issues.:cul: as listed above.

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Umm I agree ...:) How long does it take to tell me guard here or take the left flank? On a TS channel it's instant..

Co..Brun fuby is in trouble..fall back and move over to the left flank.. case solved..

in actuality, I believe we are talking different size scenarios..one taking 20-40 mins and those taking a few hours on one drive or defense. Again, that would be server and scenario to dictate.

I think you are underestimating the importance of planning. Based on the first paragraph I wonder if you actually know what planning is. What you are talking about there is execution and reaction and has nothing to do with the planning phase. Planning is where the CO explains his intent for the entire mission and the roles of the sub units in that intent. With someone who is good this can be a very involved activity. The players below that CO are left with a (usually) very detailed picture of what is expected of their units. This is not information or knowledge which can be imparted to people on the fly. It may be ok within that frame work for someone to jump into an individual tank but if that's all you want to do you are missing the real beauty of this title. What sets SB apart from so many other games/sims is the tactical engine. This requires planning to get the most out of it.

As suggested by others you should really join a Friday game and experience what we are talking about. If you still think drop in drop out play would be advantageous there is always world of tanks. :biggrin:

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It may be ok within that frame work for someone to jump into an individual tank but if that's all you want to do you are missing the real beauty of this title. What sets SB apart from so many other games/sims is the tactical engine. This requires planning to get the most out of it.

It's just the immerssion level your taking it too.. and I respect that..

but not something needed to enjoy the game itself or to win actually. Don't get me wrong, I respect those that do take it to this level! In IL-2 some take hours on end learning flying patterns.. not needed.. but it helps.. in FPS games competing in ladder games yes, we practice known maps .. not needed but helpful. it's all on the level you wish to compete.

I think in there is the Forrest missing the trees again... and all us "newbs" are wondering why? I found my answer from the military side that supports the financing the most here. With that said, Electronic Arts probably has the sum of some nations GDP.. so funding is kind of a touchy thing and I understand if it is not added. Although, I think this title rates in the TOP company games libraries.

you guys been playing this wonderful game for so long with so little community, so much within the boundaries of a MASSIVE AI controlled planning stage game like sorry to say "Company of heroes" and "men at War" type games.. your missing what a wonderful game has been created for the individual play to small group clan vs clan size wishing a sim like vehicle to control.

I love it as it is in single player as a strat game.. it is no doubt the best laid out tank game I have played as a strategy game.. love the editors and items you can add..im only half way if that through them!!

The point us "newbs" keep trying to bring to light, This is "THE" best sim feeling single tank game out there. And could expand nicely into a multiplayer platform just by adding in the dropin and 24/7 servers. This is MILES ahead of WoT which I do not play...Im much more stategic then I sound..I enjoy taking an hour to reach the bad guys etc.. that's all the good parts..

You keep thinking us new guys never played a strategy game before..that's all this and REAL war is.. and most of us probably have played many strategy games since RISK..:) There is nothing special about this game other than the sounds and sim like tanks and their 3D interiors... the rest..is in many games..

Again, it could stay as it is..im still playing it.. but I can see all the trees in this forrest and I guess some others see it too. All this is just my opinion and does not reflect on how much I already love this game.

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I think in there is the Forrest missing the trees again....

Actually the collection of trees is "forest".

I sincerely hope the use of "Forrest" as a proper noun isn't an attempt to label the current users as some sort of "Forrest Gump" type caricature.

The point us "newbs" keep trying to bring to light, This is "THE" best sim feeling single tank game out there. And could expand nicely into a multiplayer platform just by adding in the dropin and 24/7 servers. This is MILES ahead of WoT which I do not play...Im much more stategic then I sound..I enjoy taking an hour to reach the bad guys etc.. that's all the good parts..

Yes its the best "sim" but that's because it DOES model CO's briefings / Orders, etc.

In RL you don't just jump in a tank and "go".

You get a Warning Order, you go to orders (formal or radio) and then execute the plan.

I trust implicitly my junior non commissioned officers (the real crew commanders) but nobody expects them to take several million dollars worth of kit into a battle without knowing what their part of the plan is.

They also need to work as part of a larger team (Troop, Combat Team or Battle Group) so while SB supports quasi FPS (which I suspect is what you really want) you can't operate on your own.

Fundametally your idea changes SB from a "sim" (where it simulates reality) to a game.

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I still think you are misunderstanding. You are talking about an action game with strategy. SB is much more of a strategy game with action. This isn't about immersion it is about the way the engine is designed.

Think more chess than "Snakes and Ladders". The CO is the chess player, the units are his pieces. But instead of moving his pieces directly he has other people to move them for him. If those people don't understand the CO's grand plan then they won't understand their moves. This just does not lend itself to drop in play.

Maybe stop looking at the trees and see the forrest!. :debile2:

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I still think you are misunderstanding. You are talking about an action game with strategy. SB is much more of a strategy game with action.

Ummm... maybe Im not the only one misunderstanding..

Some times 10 people say the same things..just in a different ways..

But I think the two things I keep mentioning is Dropin and 24/7 servers as the OP was asking? That's all I been saying..mainly..

Actually the collection of trees is "forest".

I sincerely hope the use of "Forrest" as a proper noun isn't an attempt to label the current users as some sort of "Forrest Gump" type caricature.

Yes its the best "sim" but that's because it DOES model CO's briefings / Orders, etc.

....

Fundametally your idea changes SB from a "sim" (where it simulates reality) to a game.

Lol on the gump.. only if.. and thats a big IF.. you truely believe dropin and 24/7 servers is the wrong course for this game and turns it into some kinda gamish platform? I would then think you play very few titles and have blinders on as to what is available. This lobby start stuff..is very limited to lower level game titles within playstations xboxes and some user/host titles on the PC.. the "do not see the trees in spite of the forrest" is a very old saying.. Im not here to disrespect anyone nor have I thought I did... I am very opinionated though.

With all respect.. "every" money making game that makes it in a multiplayer platform does these things.. good games such as Silent Hunter series fail due to not doing these things eventually. After the years this title has already been around, only due to military support on the PRO version, not pressing it to move forward do I guess it even exists. thats not meant as a slight.. this title rocks for tanks.. and is the companies vision to keep it small.

Wouldn't that part of the CO briefing makes it a winner be a personal preference to you..as dropin is to me? I didn't buy this game for the CO part..didn't even know it existed. I bought it for the tanks.. so there we vary.. I didn't even buy it for the arty or bradleys or the ground troop.. in fact, I hardly knew what level they would play within the game.. I wanted tanks..3D interiors and terrain.. both ACED in this game/sim.

If as you say Fundametally a game with dropin and 24/7 servers removes it from the SIM genre.. then this is the ONLY sim/game out there. Surely you don't want to boost that do you? I would suggest trying a few other games if you do.

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I don't want to repeat myself; most of what I had to say I wrote in the other thread to which I gave the link on the previous pages. But I'd like to stress the point that flight or ship simulations are fundamentally different in their game mechanics even if we discount for a moment the distinction between simulation and game.

The main difference is that you have much fewer units in the air or at sea which as individual units have a much higher degree of autonomy in their maneuver and actions. On the ground you need to coordinate a vastly higher number of actors for an orchestrated tactical effort. This requires a much higher degree of coordination, lest the ground action degenerate into a cacophony.

Typically first person shooters involve also a high degree of player autonomy and a limited need for planning over a significant part of the planned duration of a network session; the high dynamism of a first person shooter game makes long-term planning a moot point. Yes, you still need to coordinate the actions of three to ten team members with different roles (snipers, demolition/medic/heavy weapon specialists, ...) in order to perform a tactical task of limited complexity (free hostage, defuse or plant a bomb, capture the flag, ...). This is offset with usually a very complex type of terrain (often some sort of a maze ... consequently experienced players have an advantage who know all the details of a given piece of terrain (a.k.a. "level")).

In Steel Beasts, the terrain is less complex but vastly larger. You have - in extreme cases - more than several hundred units per team at your disposal. The capabilities of each maneuver unit can be extremely different, both in speed, firepower, protection, and other factors. Therefore the required degree of coordination and the associated communication between team leader and team members is much, much higher.

I don't say that drop-in style network games are impossible, but clearly there are a number of serious concerns that it might be disruptive to what most of the current players like about Steel Beasts' gameplay. Therefore do not expect a quick change. It's not as if we at eSim Games don't understand the significance of this feature - it may rather be the contrary, actually. We respect your suggestion/demand for a drop-in as just as legitimate as any other request for new or adjusted features. In return, I'd appreciate if you are open-minded enough to consider the possibility that the resistance from the current player generation is more than just old geezers opposing to change just because they aren't mentally agile.

;)

Maybe they are up to something, after all.

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Lol on the gump.. only if.. and thats a big IF.. you truely believe dropin and 24/7 servers is the wrong course for this game and turns it into some kinda gamish platform?

Yes, I think its the wrong course of action.

I would then think you play very few titles and have blinders on as to what is available.

Well I use this at work and "play" it at home.

I also "play" Combat Mission (and have helped with the Beta team) and TacOps, both of which don't offer this either.

I don't think I have blinders on, its just as you have already said this is the best out there, so why play other stuff? I have no interest in air/ naval sims or space colonisation or other multi player interactive genres and have no interest at all in FPS (except on the rifle range).

I am very opinionated though.

As are others here - as you are finding out.

With all respect.. "every" money making game that makes it in a multiplayer platform does these things.

Sure but again SB is not a game, but a sim.

After the years this title has already been around, only due to military support on the PRO version, not pressing it to move forward do I guess it even exists. thats not meant as a slight.. this title rocks for tanks.. and is the companies vision to keep it small.

Depends on what your definition of "forward" is doesn't it!???

I think if you looked at SB 2.2 versus SB 2.6 you'd agree it has moved "forward".

"Forward" doesn't necessarily equate with "implementing what I want". :)

Wouldn't that part of the CO briefing makes it a winner be a personal preference to you..as dropin is to me? I didn't buy this game for the CO part..didn't even know it existed. I bought it for the tanks.. so there we vary.. I didn't even buy it for the arty or bradleys or the ground troop.. in fact, I hardly knew what level they would play within the game.. I wanted tanks..3D interiors and terrain.. both ACED in this game/sim.

I bought it because I wanted a personal copy of what I had at work so I could ensure I knew the sim before using it as a tool to evaluate the performance of trainees on courses that I instruct on.

And hey guess what, they are evaluated on their plans, not the ability to teleport into some random battle and "blow sh*t up" and earn points or health or whatever.

If as you say Fundametally a game with dropin and 24/7 servers removes it from the SIM genre.. then this is the ONLY sim/game out there.

This started life as a crew trainer.

Where soldiers could learn / maintain their trade at a desk on a PC for say a few thousand dollars, instead of driving the real vehicle around (at a cost of about $1,000 per km) and not as expensive as the "full simulators" that the manufacturer offers for a few hundred thousand dollars.

There are a bunch of other Sims out there. I don't see people like Airbus or Boeing going broke because people are suddenly demanding 24/7 servers and air crew are going off to play some other game, instead of climbing into a simulator and taking a A380 for a spin in a machine with six degrees of freedom, etc.

http://cloackkingwp.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/airplane-flight-simulators.jpeg

It also has the additional "sim" layer for commanders to simulate the likely outcome of their plans. They can then learn from that and make a more robust plan.

Surely you don't want to boost that do you? I would suggest trying a few other games if you do.

I don't want to play "games".

Edited by Gibsonm
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I also "play" Combat Mission (and have helped with the Beta team) and TacOps, both of which don't offer this either.

I don't want to play "games".

Oh from battlefront.com? I enjoyed the heck out of that game back in it's day.. good game.. umm..but a game..;)

I hear ya Gibsonm.. just wordings placed in different locations.. I just finished two games on Steelbeast TS... they played out basicly as friends and I play.. so, I think I got the basics and concept down pretty good.. and Ssnake.. like I said..I could wait another 10 years for dropin and 24/7 servers.. it was no place near a demand, sorry if you felt it was... suggestions is all..

I hardly ever hold my breath till I get my way anymore..not much breath left.. :)

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If SB ever goes the way of the Battlefield series for online play I'm chucking the whole thing into the compost heap.

I supported a server for Battlefield 2 when it first came out and although I could manage to some degree what was going on, the realization that it was nothing more then a pure arcade game smacked my wallet right between the eyes. What a waste of money.

All of these servers that you would like SB to emulate, for the most part, were designed so that a single player could jump into a mindless un realistic Hollywood over the top special effects bloated game where the objective goes on for ever and is so stupid it requires no preparation of any kind other than memorizing a set of keys with your hands so that your bunny hopping is better than the other guys, pfffffffffffff. Those servers are made for children and deluded individuals. I really don't care how much money they make.

Let me say it this way, Arma2 and 3, Battlefield 2 and 3, COD and MOH and what ever other FPS is out there with the walk on servers suck shit. I don't give a flyin' F#*% about graphics or eye candy and arcade play belongs in the arcade right beside the foose ball tables and "Daytona by sega".

I've participated in a few TGIF sessions and one campaign. Pro PE is light years ahead of the other guys because it's handled as close as is possible (at least to this civilian) to procedure as used by the gents who do this stuff for a living. So when I'm listening to a CO plot out a "defense in retreat" battle plan or pure attack, I'm almost certain I'm getting instructions from an individual on how to use all of these machines in the way they were meant to be used in RL. Some of the guys here are active members in there respective countries armed forces and cycle in and out of Afghanistan, Iraq and where ever else they have to be deployed every year.

If the server was set up so that participants could join even tho the simulation was running then it wouldn't be Pro PE.

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Still don't understand why SB Pro needs to be described one way or another ...is it a sim or a game ..or it is both?

But...the design of the game is this......a tool that requires a planned format...even if it takes 30 seconds or 30 minutes...a plan is essential.

Night clubs allow you to show up and do a quick burst of personal energy...easy dance without commitment

...this maybe equated to drop in servers.

Or some Ballet format.....the actor/player needs to perform according to a scheduled format..where there is a date and time...with choreographed moves...war is like this.

Is war a dance or a production?

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Back in the olden days when SB was just a game and there were only a couple dozen of us playing regularly, we kinda had a lobby on IRC and would play quick pick-up games with little to no planning. I don't see why this wouldn't work on a persistent server. The games were quick enough so that immediate spawning-in wasn't necessary. You just had to wait 10-20 minutes for the next go-around.

No matter how much smack I talked about "tank-quake" in the past, I still had plenty of fun playing this map, as well as maps like Bridge Contact and Plain O' Pain.

The maps are still available for download.

http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/244/p13_fileid/286

56e83cb74ba99_Oldschooldeathmatchisland.

56e83cb74ba99_Oldschooldeathmatchisland.

Edited by GaryOwen
grammar
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