Leopard 1A5 Tutorial Help

[Eisenschwein]

Don´t never ever try to override the Gunner with the TRP !!

Look out of your Hatch and override him from there.

Simple, fast and effective.

[Ssnake]

I tried using my joystick for TC control in the Leo 1a5 to scan and pass off targets to the gunner. I could not get it to work

Do you have set the joystick as your "preferred" device in the advanced properties?

[Hank]

Thanks to all

I don't have the Joystick set as preferred. But, I don't really plan on using it. I tried using the joystick way back in the ancient days of SB1 and could not shoot as well as with a marble mouse and keyboard. Also, I play a lot from the map when I'm playing single player ( which is a not too often mention gem of this game ... commanding from map view is a lot of fun IMHO ) and its easier for me to jump between units, views, map, etc. with the keyboard/mouse.

I've been playing with what Eisenschwein said. I think I've figured out what he means and I think it is a good way to operate as the TC. But, I'm not sure I'm doing it the way he described.

I either use the Q and Z keys to pop my head out of the hatch and use the Shift + left, up, right, down arrow keys to tell the gunner to rotate the turret. OR, I use the F4 key and look out the copula openings and do the same (except this way you get rotated with the turret and lose sight of the target until you can move to an adjacent portal).

Is that right? It seems to work good popping your head out the hatch ... at least till I get my head taken off. ... and the gun sure sounds good with your head out

thanks again ... having a blast I am

[Ssnake]

I don't have the Joystick set as preferred.

As long as it isn't set as the preferred device, SB will not recognize it for input signals, and would use a different controller (e.g. a game pad) that might be connected to your computer. Setting it as the preferred device doesn't mean that you HAVE to use it, it's just the prerequisite to use it at all should you ever change your mind.

[Splash]

Don´t never ever try to override the Gunner with the TRP !!

Look out of your Hatch and override him from there.

Simple, fast and effective.

If I'm wrong here, just tell me to MYOB.

But I believe Eisenschwein is saying target designation by the TC in the Leo1 works best when done just like in the M1.

As long as you've mapped a key to TC override (I think the controls menu calls it TC palm) It does work just like the M1 with your head out the hatch: Press the button; slew the turret.

It should work the same in the GPSE (it does with a joystick) .. but as noted earlier, there's a bug with the mouse control there.

The deal is, you've got to program a key for it. The default setup specifies Joystick Button 3. [not completely accurate -- see later post for clarification] Just pick an unused (for the Leo) key and add it. It can't be p as in the M1, because that's dynamic lead in the Leo. I use o. Someone earlier said they tried shift p.

I either use the Q and Z keys to pop my head out of the hatch and use the Shift + left, up, right, down arrow keys to tell the gunner to rotate the turret. OR, I use the F4 key and look out the copula openings and do the same (except this way you get rotated with the turret and lose sight of the target until you can move to an adjacent portal).

Is that right?

That works but is pretty imprecise. Rather than shift+left etc., press your newly programmed override key and drag that turret to the target yourself. Just like the M1. You'll continue to face the target.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Splash
Learned something new

[Hank]

Edit time :::

I did not understand that you had to hold the TC palm switch down to slew the turret, dragging the turret around.

I thought I could look in a specific direction (other than where the turret was pointing) and hit a key and the turret would slew to my view point.

this is how it is with the Leo 2s. ... one reason why I like the Leo 2's. I can scan for targets; when I find one I can hit a key and the turret will slew to what I'm looking at.

thanks a bunch for the help

[Gibsonm]

this is how it is with the Leo 2s.

Well if there weren't any improvements, it wouldn't be a Leopard 2 would it.

[Splash]

Glad you got it sorted.

Now, edit time for me:: I just went back and looked at the default controls list and see the middle mouse button also performs the TC override function. (Called palm switch in the controls menu). That same button does the same thing in the M1. So if you gun with a mouse (I don't) it appears the target-designation routine unbuttoned works the same between the two tanks.

If you use the mouse exclusively (and haven't reprogrammed your middle button for some other foolishness) there's no need to designate a key.

I use a HOTAS (CH Combatstick + Throttle) with the buttons all programmed to keypresses. I rarely use the mouse.

At the risk of further derailing Tracer1's thread ... I'm still having trouble figuring out how to lase/apply lead through Leo1's GPSE as TC. Using the stick, I can take control of the turret with my (o) override button ... change mag & polarity ... fire the gun ... everything but lase and apply lead. p has no effect, and ctrl just seems to interfere with the ubersteurung switch.

:bangin:

[SeanPatrick]

Here is the sequence I had to use to get it to work:

1. Press [F2] to go to GPSE view
2. Press [F2] again to activate mouse control of the turret
3. Hold [middle mouse] to override
4. Lay reticle on target
5. Press [Ctrl] to lase and track briefly
6. Hold [P] to add dynamic lead
7. Press [space] to fire

(I don't know if that will work with a different key mapped to override.)

Edit: My joystick software (Saitek) has the option to map even mouse presses to the stick. If your s/w also has that option, I would try mapping the override as that instead. I'll give it a try on my machine and report back if no one else does first.

[SeanPatrick]

Okay, that worked.

I mapped the [middle mouse] to Joystick button #3 and the [P] key to Joystick button #6 (right above #3 on my stick so I can hit both at the same time).

Using this method I only had to press [F2] once as the joystick works to control the turret without pressing it a 2nd time. Then I press and hold Joystick button #3 to override & lay the reticle on target, press button #2 to Lase (& track briefly), press & hold #6 to add dynamic lead, and finally #1 to fire.

This all requires a bit of dexterity to accomplish smoothly with one hand. I would recommend just using the keyboard [P] to add lead (or map it to the throttle), but that's just me.

Edit: Just thought of another option. If your stick has a twist (rudder) function, you may be able to map that too. I currently have a profile for when I'm using the T-72 that lets me manually adjust range by twisting the stick. It's sweeet.

[Tonywjones44]

May I pop in a really basic question here?

I'm familiar with how to slew the gun to the TC's peri, slew the peri to the gun, overide, etc. Also how, in the TC Eye View to immediately look in the direction the gun is pointing. But I have never worked out how to make the gunner slew the turret in the direction I'm looking when I'm 'head out' in the TC Eye View.

[SeanPatrick]

Well, to make the gunner do it, the only way I know of would be to turn the hull toward the enemy and then press [shift]+[up Arrow] (Gunner, scan front!). That way the gunner will aim roughly where the hull is pointing. However, if the target is too high or low, the gunner may not see it.

Now, another way to go about it would be to just use the override to slew the gun to the direction you're looking, wait for the gunner to say "Identified!", then release the override.

[Tonywjones44]

Sorry, that's what I meant. What is the command to over-ride the gunner so the gun slews to the direction I'm looking in? When in the TC's peri it's the Up Arrow key, but not when head out.

Many thanks.

[Hank]

I don't have a precise answer but when I have my head out and I'm looking right at ~2 o'clock and see a target, I hit the Shift+right arrow key to tell the gunner to slew right ... I'm I'm looking more toward 3 to 4 o'clock I hit it again to get the turret slew further right (or clockwise). All the while hoping he Identifies what I see.

I mainly wanted to say, I'm learning a lot from this thread. One of my problems is I'm using a two button marble mouse (no middle mouse button). I'm heading to the 'puter store to get one of the newer marble mice with more buttons.

have a nice day

[Tonywjones44]

Thanks Hank. Yes, I can do that to slew the turret in the general direction of what I'm looking at. But I think that is a command to the gunner - not an over-ride. Sean Patrick seems to suggest that there is a command which means I take control of the turret and aim the gun exactly at where I'm looking, just as if I was in the TC's peri and pushed the Up Arrow. If so, I haven't been able to find it.

[SeanPatrick]

In the "controls" dialogue, about half way down:

"TC palm switch (Leo 1)

JoyButton3

MMouse"

You must assign your own keyboard key.

[Splash]

Thanks Hank. Yes, I can do that to slew the turret in the general direction of what I'm looking at. But I think that is a command to the gunner - not an over-ride. Sean Patrick seems to suggest that there is a command which means I take control of the turret and aim the gun exactly at where I'm looking, just as if I was in the TC's peri and pushed the Up Arrow. If so, I haven't been able to find it.

It sounds like you're wanting something like the Leo2's "gun-to-peri" (KH mode). I love the Leo2 for just that function. It does not exist in the Leo1.

As TC, you get the gun on your target by pressing and holding your override (Joy3, middle mouse or a key you've programmed yourself) and slewing it there as in the M1. With a joystick you can do this either with your head out the hatch or with your face pressed against the GPSE (F2). [i still can't make F2 work with a mouse.]

Target handoff can be done with the pano sight but it's cumbersome as hell (exchange OFF/scan for target/find target/exchange ON/press-and-hold override/slew turret until it clicks into your 12/release override/tell the gunner to shoot the mofo.) But Eisenschwein has told us real Leo1 tankers didn't bother with this.

[Tonywjones44]

It sounds like you're wanting something like the Leo2's "gun-to-peri" (KH mode). I love the Leo2 for just that function. It does not exist in the Leo1.

Almost there. But rather than a 'gun-to-peri' command(I know how to do that) I'm looking for a 'gun-to-where-I'm looking with my head out of the hatch'. I've not been able to achieve this with the Leo 2, MIA1 or Challenger. Perhaps it doesn't exist, but I was told on TS the other day that it does. But unfortunately not HOW.

[Tonywjones44]

In the "controls" dialogue, about half way down:

"TC palm switch (Leo 1)

JoyButton3

MMouse"

You must assign your own keyboard key.

Thanks Sean. I've tried allocationg a key to that command but it doesn't do what I'm trying to achieve. Perhaps I'm not explaining myself very well, so I'll try again. This is for ALL tanks, not just the Leo 1.

I am riding 'head out' and looking around - as one does. (The gunner is doing his usual thing, scanning from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock). I see something of interest at 3 o'clock and wish to over-ride the gunner on to that bearing to see if he can indentify a target.

How do I do that?

[Splash]

Almost there. But rather than a 'gun-to-peri' command(I know how to do that) I'm looking for a 'gun-to-where-I'm looking with my head out of the hatch'. I've not been able to achieve this with the Leo 2, MIA1 or Challenger. Perhaps it doesn't exist, but I was told on TS the other day that it does. But unfortunately not HOW.

It doesn't exist. Except in the form of hold-the-override-and-slew-the-turret-yourself. (Which is the answer to your question immediately above.)

[Splash]

My joystick software (Saitek) has the option to map even mouse presses to the stick. If your s/w also has that option, I would try mapping the override as that instead.

Thanks for this suggestion. It works like a charm. I can now track/lase/lead as TC through the GPSE. Apparently, since I am using a stick-mapped keypress (P) for dynamic lead, using another keypress (O) for override was conflicting. They were fighting and the O was winning.

I guess it's one of the pitfalls of using keypresses (mapped to a stick) rather than the DirectX functions of the stick buttons.

[SeanPatrick]

[Tonywjones44]

It doesn't exist. Except in the form of hold-the-override-and-slew-the-turret-yourself. (Which is the answer to your question immediately above.)

Aha. Duff gen then. Thanks for putting me straight. And apols for slightly derailing the thread.

[Hank]

In the "controls" dialogue, about half way down:

"TC palm switch (Leo 1)

JoyButton3

MMouse"

You must assign your own keyboard key.

I assigned the "Y" key to this and it works for me very well. I've gotten used to the different methods for the TC to assign targets to the gunner with this key and the shift+up/down/left/right arrow keys.

It sounds like we've almost got this one figured out. I like the differences in the Leo 1 and 2's now.

[Ssnake]

It doesn't exist. Except in the form of hold-the-override-and-slew-the-turret-yourself.

Correct. (Sorry, I would have chimed in earlier but I'm currently a bit absorbed with preparations for some activity next week that will keep me fully occupied).

This was a deliberate decision. In real life, the problem is for the gunner that the only thing that he can see is what little his scoped sight shows, typically 7°, which are a mere 5% of the human eye's normal field of view. How is he supposed to know in which direction the commander looks, if the tank does not have a specific method for a precise override method like the Peri's KH mode?

We didn't want to give the player such a capability in general when there are both tanks that have it, and some that do not.