Russia test Centauro near Moscow

[Galileo]

Russia is testing Italy's Centauro wheeled tank and considering building it under license, a representative of the Oto-Melara company which makes the tank said on Saturday, May 12, 2012. "The first two vehicles with 105-mm and 125-mm guns are on trial at a Moscow Region proving ground," he said

http://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2012_new_army_military_defence_industry_uk/russia_is_testing_and_considering_to_build_under_license_the_italian_wheeled_tank_centauro_1305121.html

Well soon we will need a new texture for the Centauro in SBPro.

[Jartsev]

Russia is testing Italy's Centauro wheeled tank and considering building it under license, a representative of the Oto-Melara company which makes the tank said on Saturday, May 12, 2012. "The first two vehicles with 105-mm and 125-mm guns are on trial at a Moscow Region proving ground," he said

http://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2012_new_army_military_defence_industry_uk/russia_is_testing_and_considering_to_build_under_license_the_italian_wheeled_tank_centauro_1305121.html

Well soon we will need a new texture for the Centauro in SBPro.

Note- version with 125mm main gun is a special build for this trials. Origin and exact model of the gun are unknown.

-Also there are agreements with german MoD for Boxer trials(must be approved by german federal parlament).

-Rheinmetall already got contract for combined arms training center near Mulino. They will provide some core hardware.

-There some not announced agreements or negotiations with Finnish defense companies for possible technology transfer(probably in the area of C4 systems and medium armored vehicles)

-Negatiations(probable subject- MRAP vehicles) with BAe Systems currently are not successful according some russian journalists.

Entire situation is like ice-cold shower for russian defense industry and general public and generates a lot of funny whining and buzz

[streakeagle]

Russian buying western equipment? That would be something really new and different.

[RogueSnake79]

I'd imagine that European defense contractors will face the same up hill battle in Russia, as they do in the US. Programs will move right along till the civilian public gets wind, then they will hit a wall. And from there it becomes a political football, and dies a slow death. eg the airbus tanker, and the presidential helo programs in the US.

"They took our Jobs!!"

[Marko]

The Russians did mount a !00mm Gun on a BTR

Also they mounted the 125 turret on a modified BTR 90

[Jartsev]

The Russians did mount a !00mm Gun on a BTR

Also they mounted the 125 turret on a modified BTR 90

Marko, 1st picture- from Cuba and vehicles are locally designed and converted; 2nd picture- is just an artist´s impression, there no real prototype behind it.

Edit:

Real 2S28 Sprut-K is a bit different and probably existed only on paper.

[Marko]

I found this pic. There was a prototype.

Not sure if this is it.

Also A complete BMP -3 turret can be fitted to the BTR.

Giving it some decent fire power.

[Galileo]

I'd imagine that European defense contractors will face the same up hill battle in Russia, as they do in the US. Programs will move right along till the civilian public gets wind, then they will hit a wall. And from there it becomes a political football, and dies a slow death. eg the airbus tanker, and the presidential helo programs in the US.

"They took our Jobs!!"

I don't think so, France sell 4 Mistral Helo carrier and amphibious assault ship to Russia, From the first talks to the contract signature less than 14 months!

The only ones to complain were some US senators and some baltic sea states,

[Jartsev]

I found this pic. There was a prototype.

Not sure if this is it.

Also A complete BMP -3 turret can be fitted to the BTR.

This is "Zhalo"("Sting")- 85mm high velocity AT gun on BTR-70 chassis. For the late 70s-early 80s timeframe dead on arrival project. Main affort was concentrated on systems with 152mm guns but only one was completed and standartized- 2S25(intended for airborne units at beginning but later adopted as multi-service vehicle).

BTR-90 with BMP-3 turret was a technology demonstrator, but when it was created MoD and General Staff interest begun to shift for more advanced designs of basic chassis.

[Galileo]

2 other centauro one with a 30mm gun and another with 120mm will join the trial in 6 weeks.

http://defense-update.com/20120512_russia-testing-centauro-italian-wheeled-tanks.html

[Jartsev]

2 other centauro one with a 30mm gun and another with 120mm will join the trial in 6 weeks.

http://defense-update.com/20120512_russia-testing-centauro-italian-wheeled-tanks.html

Yep. Vehicle with 30mm- probably variant of VBM Freccia(Italians were unable to provide more advanced SuperAV with amphibious capabilities). Interesting what gun and turret are used.

[rump]

Does this imply the Centauro will replace the BTR-80/90?

Assumably, if the Italian wheeled armored gun design will be selected by the Russians, it will be deployed with additional variants of the same platform (infantry carrier, command vehicle, mortar carrier, armored ambulance and recovery vehicles) to maximize commonality.

(from http://defense-update.com/20120512_russia-testing-centauro-italian-wheeled-tanks.html)

- Rump

[Jartsev]

Does this imply the Centauro will replace the BTR-80/90?

Assumably, if the Italian wheeled armored gun design will be selected by the Russians, it will be deployed with additional variants of the same platform (infantry carrier, command vehicle, mortar carrier, armored ambulance and recovery vehicles) to maximize commonality.

(from http://defense-update.com/20120512_russia-testing-centauro-italian-wheeled-tanks.html)

- Rump

Well... Russian Ground forces currently switched to brigade system and discarded regiments and divisions. Entire system is inspired by US Army BCT concept. There 3 proposed types of brigades for "objective force":

-Heavy: type A (2 armor+ 2 mech.inf. battalions plus supporting units) and type B(1 armor and 3 mech.infantry battalions plus supporting units). Heavy brigades must use tanks and tracked IFVs

-Medium mechanized infantry brigades. Most interesting thing that medium brigades will mimic US SBCTs and will be armed with wheeled APCs(IFVs) and wheeled tank destroyers(close support guns)

-Light Brigades. Airborne, SpN, Infantry, Mountain etc. Truck-mounted(GAZ Tiger, Iveco Lynx, GAZ Wolf family).

As we can see most logical utilization for imported wheeled medium armored vehicles is to use them in those "SBCT wanna be" brigades till availability of indigenous systems. In other brigades legacy BTR-based specialized vehicles probably will be replaced by "Typhoon" family of armored trucks(separate R&D activities by Ural Group and KAMAZ)

Its important to understand that local defense industry have a priority and foreign equipment is needed mostly as a back up in case of own R&D programs failure or "fill-the-gap" solution. Other important goals:

-to put local industry in competitive market conditions

-tighten the connections with major EU states

-technology transfer in some areas

I dont think that imported systems will be able "wash-out" old equipment from the stocks.

P.S. Force composition and TOEs are not yet finalized- we will see many changes in next few years, so all what i wrote above can be used for general information only.

Edit: Arctic and mountain brigades are "light", but MTLB-mounted and will loose their organic armor battalions in the future.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Jartsev

[Brun]

So much for this

http://www.rferl.org/content/rogozin.../24471699.html

They want kids to play with russian made tanks and military toys and at the same time test a Centauro? Maybe they can reverse engineer the Centauro into their own bastardized version and call it the Putin.

Hmmm link does not work but an article about russian government asking toy makers to produce more russian kit for the kids to play with.

[SeanPatrick]

Here is the story.

[Jartsev]

This is a mister Rogozin in his distiled form. What else can you expect from the guy planting ash-trees in the NATO HQ!? But this clown currently leads defense industrial board of russian government and promised to make everything to prevent purchases by MoD from foreign sources.

BTW:

Skin is based on template created by Dejawolf.

centauro.zip

[solus]

TWhat else can you expect from the guy planting ash-trees in the NATO HQ!?

At least, it was funny:

"Symbolically enough, a poplar, or “topol” in Russian, brings up associations with Russia’s modern intercontinental ballistic missiles Topol-M. "Idecided to plant two trees at once,” Rogozin quipped in his Twitter later and attached a photo featuring the process of planting.

“To the left is just a topol [poplar] and to the right it is topol-m [poplar-m],” Rogozin commented".

By the way, I've made a scenario for the Centauro.

http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/24/p13_fileid/2250

Believe me or not, I began to design it several days before the possible Russia-Centauro deal was announced. Possibly, my brain works at the same length as Russian Defence Ministry. :eek2:

[Jartsev]

According to recently announced plans russian MoD will lose most of its procurement capabilities in nearest future. Most of functions related to procurement of new systems, R&D works, pricing subjects and defining requirements for future systems will be handed over to civil agencies and boards connected with russian defense industry. Sounds really weird.

Not so good news for possible foreign contractors...

[Jartsev]

Small update. According to the article recently published in "Janes Defense Weekly" vehicles already delivered- Centauro B1 with 105mm gun and Freccia with 25mm gun. Will be delivered - Centauro with 120mm gun and Freccia with 30mm gun. This information matches original russo-italian agreements from 2010 and makes existence of 125mm Centauro more doubtfull.

[Galileo]

Some photos of the Centauro in Novorossiysk

http://warsonline.info/bronetechnika/pribila-2-partiya-italyanskich-btr-centauro.html

[Jartsev]

Just announced- 2 GTK MRAV undergoing tests in Russia...

[Maj.Hans]

So much for this

http://www.rferl.org/content/rogozin.../24471699.html

They want kids to play with russian made tanks and military toys and at the same time test a Centauro? Maybe they can reverse engineer the Centauro into their own bastardized version and call it the Putin.

Hmmm link does not work but an article about russian government asking toy makers to produce more russian kit for the kids to play with.

Hum, I would be all on board with that.

Do you know how hard it is to find 1/72 scale model kits of Russian vehicles to be 'blown up' by my collection of 1/72 scale Abrams and Leopards?