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Campaign: Red Tide '85 (discussion thread)


Volcano
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Volcano,

In the overnight period between main battles 3 and 4, the UK contingent is arranging to swap it's remaining Challengers for reserve American MIs. So please ensure the updated TOE reflects this change. Many thanks. :)

So was that happening?

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Fundamental AAR point from today's Recon Battle:

If its not your vehicle, then STAY OUT unless you ask the owner's permission.

More colourful versions of that can be found in the scrolling text tracker in the Report file.

We lost multiple vehicles today because they were sited to do a job and a bored somebody just decided to jump in and drive around, or shoot at the wrong target, or ...

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Fundamental AAR point from today's Recon Battle:

If its not your vehicle, then STAY OUT unless you ask the owner's permission.

I know that it is very bad form to enter another players vehicle without permission (although I've had it done to me several times) but does that also apply to occupying the observer's position? And does doing so affect the players operation of his tank in anyway?

I had numerous people cycling through my observer's positions last night and it didn't seem to affect anything. And it has never bothered me - other than to be nervous about what experinced players are thinking of my tactics. :(

Those who feel very strongly about this - to the extent of shouting obscenities over the radio to any 'occupier' - surely have the option of selecting NO when asked at the start if they wish to allow others to occupy their vehicle. I realise this means that if they drop no one else can pick it up, but that's a small price to pay IMHO to avoid unpleasantness.

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I know that it is very bad form to enter another players vehicle without permission (although I've had it done to me several times) but does that also apply to occupying the observer's position? And does doing so affect the players operation of his tank in anyway?

I had numerous people cycling through my observer's positions last night and it didn't seem to affect anything. And it has never bothered me - other than to be nervous about what experinced players are thinking of my tactics. :(

Those who feel very strongly about this - to the extent of shouting obscenities over the radio to any 'occupier' - surely have the option of selecting NO when asked at the start if they wish to allow others to occupy their vehicle. I realise this means that if they drop no one else can pick it up, but that's a small price to pay IMHO to avoid unpleasantness.

Was not present for the recon battle so don't know really what happened but!

IMHO I don't think it's a problem to observe another tank to watch what is happening as long as YOU'R OWN VEHICLE/PLATOON is positioned in a good position, doesn't have a job to do and the enemy is not firing on or observing or moving close to it.

And if you are observing a vehicle other than your own or even occupying it, you should always always be aware of what you'r own vehicle is doing and at the same time pay attention to comms net.

If this is not possible, STAY in your own vehicle/platoon.

Other than that, Tjay you stayed in your own platoon last friday for the crucial part so currently it seems you'r doing it right. ;)

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Was not present for the recon battle so don't know really what happened but!

IMHO I don't think it's a problem to observe another tank to watch what is happening as long as YOU'R OWN VEHICLE/PLATOON is positioned in a good position, doesn't have a job to do and the enemy is not firing on or observing or moving close to it.

And if you are observing a vehicle other than your own or even occupying it, you should always always be aware of what you'r own vehicle is doing and at the same time pay attention to comms net.

If this is not possible, STAY in your own vehicle/platoon.

Other than that, Tjay you stayed in your own platoon last friday for the crucial part so currently it seems you'r doing it right. ;)

I agree 100%. If I have a single live unit left I stick with it.

Last night, I eventually lost the 3 recon assets I was controlling, and Asassin didn't have a spare vehicle to offer me. I then briefly hopped into the observer's position of a tank parked in an interesting position only to receive an earful of abuse that boiled down to '

Get out of my effing tank'. Sad really.

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Well the Command Chain on BLUEFOR was sent this as part of a PM on the 29th:

5. Being bored - if you have people in rear call signs, happy for you to employ them forward within your company.

Not happy for them to just randomly jump into vehicles and potentially "foul up" that Company's plan.

If the Compnay commander asks for help that is a different matter.

and

Happy for this to be PM'ed to your subordinates though (if you are starting to build a central core of regular attendees) - I wont be posting it on the public threads.

So they are the rules for BLUEFOR during Red Tide '85 until further notice.

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I know that it is very bad form to enter another players vehicle without permission (although I've had it done to me several times) but does that also apply to occupying the observer's position? And does doing so affect the players operation of his tank in anyway?

I had numerous people cycling through my observer's positions last night and it didn't seem to affect anything. And it has never bothered me - other than to be nervous about what experinced players are thinking of my tactics. :(

Those who feel very strongly about this - to the extent of shouting obscenities over the radio to any 'occupier' - surely have the option of selecting NO when asked at the start if they wish to allow others to occupy their vehicle. I realise this means that if they drop no one else can pick it up, but that's a small price to pay IMHO to avoid unpleasantness.

IIRC, having someone in the Observer's position has no effect on my handling of a vehicle, as they're not in my vehicle. I rather welcome visitors who might give me a few suggestions. Sean did this with me a few weeks ago, going through woods. We were able to nail two enemy recce vehicles in short order).

Someone taking over a crew position is a different matter, especially if I'm closely engaged and involved in a knife fight. I don't need to be locked out of the gunner's position, for example, by someone who's got my turret traversed ninety degrees away from my intended victim.

I dropped last night about 2/3 through the scenario. Again IIRC, if I had selected "NO" on startup (and didn't!), no one on my side could get at my vehicles and infantry.

So, for me, if anyone wants to visit and look over my shoulder in the Observer's slot, be my guest. If, however, you want to take up residence, I'll have to get the desk clerk to verify your reservation...!

Cheers,

TP

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There are to my knowledge atleast 4 reasons why you don't get into someone else's vehicle

firstly, and this depends on the persons computer/connection and size and scope of mission.It can have an effect on the player's computer performance.Why?...don't know why, it just does with some systems.Especially when more than 1 observer jumps in.Not to mention when there's 100 vehicles moving around while arty, smoke and trees need rendering.I've seen it, others have too.In smaller more "performance friendly" missions ,I got no problem with it and we allow it all the time.But if someone requests it...then they have reasons so get out of the vehicle.The person bringing this issue to the forum table was asked ...then explained too "why" he was being asked to leave the vehicle and when he countinued to argue was told to "get out".And when he continued to argue and make it a debate while in a heated battle was told to f-off and rightly so.That discussion/debate could have taken place after the battle.

Secondly,some people are simply uncomfortable with someone looking over their shoulder when trying to play.Its the same as reading over someones shoulder...its creepy.So don't do it unless invited,or at the very least ask first.ALOT OF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THIS ONE.

thirdly, is the chance of some taking control of a station deliberatly, out of habit or simply by accident.Easy to do if your a newbie or veteran in the heat of battle.

and lastly its just plain distracting to see someone jump into the tank not knowing if their going to do the above when your in a battle position waiting for the enemy to appear any moment.

Also the reason for the open tanks has more to do with disconnects than anything else.So the tanks can be handed off to remaining players.

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Well the Command Chain on BLUEFOR was sent this as part of a PM on the 29th:

and

So they are the rules for BLUEFOR during Red Tide '85 until further notice.

Tango29 has understood the question (see below) by saying 'having someone in the Observer's position has no effect on my handling of a vehicle, as they're not in my vehicle'.

This is what I have always understood. And I know I'm not the only one. If you wish to include the observers position as being IN the vehicle (which both logically and graphically it is not), at least for the duration of this campaign, I think you should make that clear.

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There are to my knowledge atleast 4 reasons why you don't get into someone else's vehicle

.

Thank you for this point of view. It's now obvious that some players consider the observer's position to be IN the vehicle and an intrusion, while others do not - and have no problem (as I do not) with others occupying it at will. I see the little message and just accept it as part of SB.

However, if this causes 'computer problems' for some people and winds others up because they are hyper-sensitive about others 'looking over their shoulder', I shall refrain from doing so in future. It's no big deal.

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IIRC, having someone in the Observer's position has no effect on my handling of a vehicle, as they're not in my vehicle. I rather welcome visitors who might give me a few suggestions. Sean did this with me a few weeks ago, going through woods. We were able to nail two enemy recce vehicles in short order).

Someone taking over a crew position is a different matter, especially if I'm closely engaged and involved in a knife fight. I don't need to be locked out of the gunner's position, for example, by someone who's got my turret traversed ninety degrees away from my intended victim.

I dropped last night about 2/3 through the scenario. Again IIRC, if I had selected "NO" on startup (and didn't!), no one on my side could get at my vehicles and infantry.

So, for me, if anyone wants to visit and look over my shoulder in the Observer's slot, be my guest. If, however, you want to take up residence, I'll have to get the desk clerk to verify your reservation...!

Cheers,

TP

Thanks Tango. That's always been my position too. But as Badger points out, others feel differently and very strongly about this. So I won't bother in future. Seems a bit precious to me, but there you go. It's no big deal - at least, not as far as I'm concerned.

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