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stalintc

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Glorious Soviet Union merciless crush upstart capitalists!

Couple of amusing points:

An M113 that Marko kept missing at point blank range, took about 40 rounds to kill it. (BMP-1s so, about average)

I was not shooting. the AI was. The M113 was about a hundred and fifty yards away.

It was fun watching the BMP bang away though.Or should i say Pop away.

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  • 1 month later...

Couple of amusing points:

An M113 that Marko kept missing at point blank range, took about 40 rounds to kill it. (BMP-1s so, about average)

And M1A2 that Dark bombed the living s**t out of and it still wouldn't DIE!

We had to finish it off with a f**king miracle BMP 1 round.

Is this a known issue? I experienced the same thing recently in a downloaded scenario. My Abrams kept hitting a RedFor M113 FO and it-just-would-not-DIE. I know SABOT rounds were probably going right through it instead of blowing it up, but the M113 must've been Swiss-Cheese after the fact!

BTW, nice M1 screenshots!

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  • 3 weeks later...
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UKA has encountered the 'bullet proof M113' problem before. In a previous scenario Dark hammered one from point blank range, on its side, with a Pizarro's main gun to no effect. Is this a known issue?

You mean, is it a know issue that it is an aluminum box and you will just punch holes in it with KE? Yes. I doesnt have all those explody things in it like a BMP or even a Bradley (ATGM ammo). :D

Everyone can be quite prone to panic suddenly. Anytime someone shoots a PC with KE, the question should not be "why didn't I get a critical kill?" --rather, an "issue" would be if it suffered no damage at all. In that situation you are really punching holes in it trying to directly kill crew, since there is no magic impact. I suspect that it was crippled beyond all capability, but just-have-to-kill-it syndrome set in. Best thing to do in that situation is either ignore it (AI will ignore severely crippled targets too) or change you angle on it and ammo type. The aternative is that you might have been firing HE at it and it that just isn't quite the best tool for anything others than disabling an armored vehicle (usually).

If there wasn't this relationship with KE and light armor then HEAT would be rather pointless. Also, it is worth mentioning that M113A3s and above (including all DK variants), in SB and IRL, have spall liners so they can be quite survivable in many situations, yes, very similar to modern IFVs. M113A1 and A2 isn't so great in that regard.

That said, if someone really could show an AAR with 40 maingun impacts on the same PC then we would give it a look. The support forum would be the best place to discuss that. ;)

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Well that BMP-1's gun only fires HEAT and HE so the "sabot going straight through" argument doesn't apply, as opposed to the earlier Pizarro engagement where it might.

Right, in that case the BMP-1 gun should kill the M113 easily from the side and rear, from the engine area though it would likely just knock it out with engine damage. Of course, you have to be lucky enough to hit the target first with that gun, and hitting it multiple times may not even be possible. ;)

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But the crew and passengers may be just completely shattered.

I saw an image of a knocked out armored PC hit by an RPG in Africa, the vehicle looks like it had very little damage, but the passenger compartment was soaked in a pool of blood. No one was probably in any shape to operate the vehicle, even if it were still operable.

It's probably not a trivial matter to program computer behavior which can determine distinctions where the vehicle is for all practical purposes knocked out of play, yet not, but not worthy of attention.

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But the crew and passengers may be just completely shattered.

I saw an image of a knocked out armored PC hit by an RPG in Africa, the vehicle looks like it had very little damage, but the passenger compartment was soaked in a pool of blood. No one was probably in any shape to operate the vehicle, even if it were still operable.

Yes, and we take that into account/model that already.

Unfortunately, people like to get that magic kill shot, but for the most part vehicles can all but be destroyed and there may be a lone survivor inside. Or maybe the weapon and engine are destroyed, but the crew is still alive - so you have an armored pillbox with a radio. This is all a matter of chance, hit location, round type, angle of impact and so forth - a lot of variables. And besides, we are just speculating here. At one point it was a about a Centauro firing KE rounds into an M113 (assumption), and then it was a BMP firing HEAT rounds into it at an unknown angle, so I was merely saying that HE and HEAT into engine compartments may only cause destruction of the engine compartment only. Nothing in this latest community panic episode has been very specific (heck, I don't even know what M113 variant we are talking about here -- they are very different in survivability from one variant to another).

So, wild speculating aside, I don't think it is worth me discussing this any further. Like I said, if someone has an AAR showing an M113 getting hit XX times with maingun (I believe that was the first accusation?) then it will certainly be examined and explained, or adjusted. This is all probably a moot point anyway, because I do recall that the M113s (all) have all had their armor model adjusted between the last version with more accurate data. ;)

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