Scripting - Vehicle type definitions

[Gibsonm]

Trying to co-ordinate a two Company up Soviet, first echelon assault.

So that's 2 x Coy of BTR-80 (2 x 10 = 20) and 2 x Pl of T-72 (2 x 3 = 6).

All up 26 vehicles.

Have created a region where the Companies wait to ensure they step off in columns of Platoons together.

Once the region is "full" of the units an "event" is True and the resulting "embark if" conditions are satisfied.

However setting the condition to be "number of operational friendly AFV in Region is greater than 23, 24 or 25" doesn't work (just in case a Platoon is outside the border of the region in the 3D world).

Setting the same with number of PCs greater than 17, 18 or 19 doesn't work either.

I don't want the tanks to trigger this because they are the first units in and the whole idea is for the Companies to launch when they are complete.

Is there a list somewhere of what SB interprets as a "PC" (e.g. is a BMP-2 a "PC" or in the "AFV" list? Is a BTR-80 "just" a PC and not an AFV)?

I'm working on the basis that Tanks + IFV + APC = "AFV" (but that enigneering vehicles or artillery aren't).

Edited November 12, 2012 by Gibsonm

[Tacbat]

I don't recall seeing a listing of what vehicle was considered what. If you can't get it to work, you could try:

Event 1: Unit 1/A is in region 1 AND Unit 2/A is in region 1 AND Unit 3/A is in region 1

Event 2: Unit 4/A is in region 1 AND Unit 5/A is in region 1 AND Unit 6/A is in region 1

The use the "Embark if.." using if Red event 1 is true AND Red event 2 is true

Repeat the process for the second Coy.

There's probably a more elegant way of getting the same behaviour, but that's what I came up with rather quickly.

[Gibsonm]

Update:

Replayed again this time with "Show", "Vehicle icons" on.

Some of the actual vehicles were "outside the box" (even though the unit icon was "inside").

So I've made the region bigger and will see how that goes.

Would still like to know if for example a Bushmaster is classified as a "PC" or an "AFV" (personally I wouldn't but I don't compile the list ) or a "Truck"?

Also what defines "forces" is each infantryman a "1" for the Force condition or does it need to be a "unit" (e.g. squad = "1")?

[Gibsonm]

I don't recall seeing a listing of what vehicle was considered what. If you can't get it to work, you could try:

Event 1: Unit 1/A is in region 1 AND Unit 2/A is in region 1 AND Unit 3/A is in region 1

Event 2: Unit 4/A is in region 1 AND Unit 5/A is in region 1 AND Unit 6/A is in region 1

The use the "Embark if.." using if Red event 1 is true AND Red event 2 is true

Repeat the process for the second Coy.

There's probably a more elegant way of getting the same behaviour, but that's what I came up with rather quickly.

Thanks, I appreciate the quick response.

Unfortunately I'm modelling the 3 x PL and CHQ per Coy which gives us four units (which is one too many for the "AND" statements [without going insane nesting them]).

The "micro" view of checking where the vehicles actually stopped and then adjusting the region to cover it made it work.

[Eisenschwein]

If you model ex UDSSR, make one Plt with 6 Tanks, one Plt with 3 + CO that works perfectly for me.

[Gibsonm]

Unfortunately I'm doing a "doctrinal template" where the vehicles need to be in the "right place" (so aggregating a Company into two units, doesn't quite work).

So Battalion in column until a certain distance from the FEBA.

Then Battalion in column of Companies a bit closer (Tank PL in column in front of each Mech Coy).

The Battalion in column of Platoons (Tank PL in "line" across the frontage of three Mech PLs in column).

Finally Battle Formation (as they cross the FEBA) - Tanks in line across the frontage, Mech PLs in line behind them (three Mech PLs "up", Company commander centre and behind middle Mech PL), Second Echelon, similar setup but a distance back, BHQ and ATGM assets deployed, 2S1s in firing positions etc.

[Tacbat]

Unfortunately I'm modelling the 3 x PL and CHQ per Coy which gives us four units (which is one too many for the "AND" statements [without going insane nesting them]).

My example above should work for 6 units in a Coy altogether, but as you said the KISS principle trumps all.

[Grenny]

BTW,

Wheren't first echelon units supposed to be equipped with BMP (1/2)?

Our teachings allways stated that the BTR regiments where usually part of the 2nd echelon forces.

[Gibsonm]

In our doctrine we have:

- Rifle Bns (truck mounted)

- Mech Bn (APC) mounted in BTR-80 and

- Mech Bn (IFV) mounted in BMP-1 or BMP-2

The echelons I referred to are those within the Bn (so 1st Ech is the first two Coy and the 2nd Ech being the third Coy).

Not to be confused with the stategic echelons (1st Class, units, 2nd Class, 3rd Class, etc.) where 1st class are fully manned with the latest gear and 5th Class are undermanned and using T-35/85 and come from East of the Urals.

[Ssnake]

Unfortunately I'm doing a "doctrinal template" where the vehicles need to be in the "right place" (so aggregating a Company into two units, doesn't quite work).

Why not?

You could split the six-vehicle unit into two sections of three tanks each. Sounds stupid, but it allows the platoon leader to direct both "sections" later on through the F1 view instead of having to rely on the map.

[Gibsonm]

Well because its a doctrinal "template".

A demonstration if you prefer.

Its not playable by either side (apart from maybe a Blue UAV flyover to see the layout a certain points).

When the column gets to point X it does Y.

The key question remains:

Is there a list somewhere of what SB interprets as a "PC" (e.g. is a BMP-2 a "PC" or in the "AFV" list? Is a BTR-80 "just" a PC and not an AFV)?

I'm working on the basis that Tanks + IFV + APC = "AFV" (but that enigneering vehicles or artillery aren't).

Would still like to know if for example a Bushmaster is classified as a "PC" or an "AFV" (personally I wouldn't but I don't compile the list ) or a "Truck"?

Also what defines "forces" is each infantryman a "1" for the Force condition or does it need to be a "unit" (e.g. squad = "1")?

[Ssnake]

Before I tell you something wrong, may I suggest to use one of those "museum" scenarios that simply put all vehicles in SB Pro on display and then let each of them drive a route through a number of small regions.

Create a global condition for each region to be true if a unit of a specific category is inside this region.

In the mission debugger you can then simply see when each of the conditions is true, and which vehicles are present in those regions.

This seems to me the best way to verify which unit belongs to which category.

[Gibsonm]

Hmm, sounds like a nice weekend project.

Hopefully those museum scenarios aren't password protected.

[Gibsonm]

OK I've adapted / enlarged one to include everything in 2.654 and set up regions where text is generated if the unit type in the region is > 0.

The problem is I can't reset the condition once set.

So the first unit throught the "Force" region achieves that but then following ones don't generate the message (I think because the first unit set the condition).

I guess I could run it 100 or so times (once for every unit) but I was hoping to just run it once with all the units following the same route but separated so only one unit was in one region at a time.

[Gibsonm]

Well partway through and coming up with some interesting results.

Hands up who thought SB classified a "Wiesel" as a "tank" for the purposes of those logical arguments (I know its got TOW but ...).

Will post the spreadsheet here once I've finished.

[Gibsonm]

OK so 113 runs later (thank you for the F12 key! ) I have a list of which units satisfy which logical conditions in SB Pro PE.

Hopefully others may find it useful.

Unit classification_2_654.zip

Edited November 15, 2012 by Gibsonm

[Hedgehog]

Hands up who thought SB classified a "Wiesel" as a "tank" for the purposes of those logical arguments (I know its got TOW but ...).

Well, its got Tracks, Armour and a Direct Fire Weapon System.

So, Technically. Tank.

Depends on your definitions. :biggrin:

If you defined a tank as a mobile protected space with direct fire weapon systems most vehicles in SB would be a tank, even the Centauro or the M113AS4

Edit,

OK so 113 runs later (thank you for the F12 key! ) I have a list of which units satisfy which logical conditions in SB Pro PE.

Hopefully others may find it useful.

I have been remiss: Thanks Gibsonm!

Maybe could include it as part of the Documentation for the next update?

[rump]

OK so 113 runs later (thank you for the F12 key! ) I have a list of which units satisfy which logical conditions in SB Pro PE.

Hopefully others may find it useful.

Thanks!

[Ssnake]

OK I've adapted / enlarged one to include everything in 2.654 and set up regions where text is generated if the unit type in the region is > 0.

The problem is I can't reset the condition once set.

...because you used Events, not Conditions. Conditions can't generate messages, only Events can do that. That's why I suggested to use the mission debugger. You can give each condition a suitably descriptive name and then simply SEE when a condition is true.

[Tacbat]

Hopefully others may find it useful.

Yes, very. Thanks!

[Gibsonm]

...because you used Events, not Conditions. Conditions can't generate messages, only Events can do that. That's why I suggested to use the mission debugger. You can give each condition a suitably descriptive name and then simply SEE when a condition is true.

Sure.

But then you need to look for it.

This way I just reviewed the scrolling text box at the end of each run, without having to open the debugger.

[Gibsonm]

If you defined a tank as a mobile protected space with direct fire weapon systems most vehicles in SB would be a tank, even the Centauro or the M113AS4.

Well then no doubt you are happy that the M88, Wisent, Biber, MT-55, M-109, 2S1 and ZSU 23/4 are tanks too.

[Gibsonm]

OK in an attempt to divert the PM / Email traffic I'm now getting about how to read this. ...

Steel Beasts logic (Conditions, Events, embark if ...) have several conditions available to them.

If you look at the screenshot below there are blue circles around the word "Forces". This can be cycled around "Forces", "Truck", "Helo", "PC", "AFV" and "Tank".

So for example you can create an event, "If friendly tanks are greater than 6" generate message "We Won!" and apply this to a region on the map called "Objective".

The problem is there was no public list to tell me what Steel Beasts considered to be what.

So from my professional judgement to achieve the above I would have assumed the need to put "Tanks" (M1, T-72, Leo, Challenger ...) on the objective.

Now I know that Steel Beasts considers:

2S1

Biber

Centauro

M88

MT-55

M-109

Wiesel

Wisent

and

ZSU 23/4 (but not the 2S6 Tunguska )

As "tanks" for these conditions / events, etc.

To use the table, look down to find the unit you want to check on, then look across and if a box says "Yes" then that is the condition it will satisfy.

So a Jaguar will satisfy the "Forces", "AFV" and "PC" conditions but not "Truck", "Helo" or "Tank".

An Ambulance (any type) wont satisfy any of the conditions.

A motorcycle wont trigger anything either but if the guy gets off the back that will satisfy "Forces".

Does that help?

Edited November 15, 2012 by Gibsonm

[Hedgehog]

Just read through Gib's list.

A 2s6 tunguska is a PC

Yet a ZSU 23-4 is a Tank??

Weird

[Tacbat]

G,

Recommend that you upload this info to the downloads area for future reference, or possibly ask to have this thread moved over to the scenarios thread so it doesn't get lost in the forums.