Jump to content
Panzer_Leader

Scenario development questions re: German Reconnaissance Battalion 1989

Recommended Posts

OK, there's a thread running on this topic in 'Tactics' which relates more to TO&E but I also have some specific questions regarding development of the scenario itself which I thought would be better posted here. A few to start (I'm sure there'll be more :eek2:):

1. Are there any components that need to be disabled in the Damage model to make the ASLAV-25 an accurate-as-possible proxy for the Luchs A2? My research says both have TIS and LRF. I'm not sure about Stabilisation or Ballistic Computer though? I understand the Luchs A2 lost its amphibious capability with the introduction of TIS but I can't disable this in the Damage model (and it only matters if there's water on the map anyway).

2. In 1989 the standard rifle of the German army was the 7.62mm G3, correct? If so, what was a "typical" combat load of 7.62mm ammunition for an infantryman? I've guesstimated 140 rounds (seven magazines of 20 rounds each) but would appreciate some guidance to firm this up.

3. Is the "lePzF" anti-armour weapon for the rifle squads the same as the PzF44 which equipped the German army until replaced by the PzF3? Wikipedia says the PzF44 was also called the Leichte Panzerfaust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PzF_44) so I assume it is but just wanted to confirm before choosing.

I appreciate I'm a detail nut but I can't help myself... :redface: I'll post more questions as and when they come up. Thanks in advance for your help.

Cheers

Edited by Panzer_Leader
Corrected typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OK, there's a thread running on this topic in 'Tactics' which relates more to TO&E but I also have some specific questions regarding development of the scenario itself which I thought would be better posted here. A few to start (I'm sure there'll be more :eek2:):

1. Are there any components that need to be disabled in the Damage model to make the ASLAV-25 an accurate-as-possible proxy for the Luchs A2? My research says both have TIS and LRF. I'm not sure about Stabilisation or Ballistic Computer though? I understand the Luchs A2 lost its amphibious capability with the introduction of TIS but I can't disable this in the Damage model (and it only matters if there's water on the map anyway).

You could place a Penalty Zone over bodies of water.
2. In 1989 the standard rifle of the German army was the 7.62mm G3, correct? If so, what was a "typical" combat load of 7.62mm ammunition for an infantryman? I've guesstimated 140 rounds (seven magazines of 20 rounds each) but would appreciate some guidance to firm this up.

I believe so, the G3 was used untill replaced by the G36 in the mid 90s.

(There were plans to replace it with the G11, but that fell through with the spending cuts brought about with the end of the cold war.)

(Best person to ask RE "combat load would probably be Duke (He's an ex/and now current PazerGrenadier)

3. Is the "lePzF" anti-armour weapon for the rifle squads the same as the PzF44 which equipped the German army until replaced by the PzF3? Wikipedia says the PzF44 was also called the Leichte Panzerfaust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PzF_44) so I assume it is but just wanted to confirm before choosing.

Um, pass

I appreciate I'm a detail nut but I can't help myself... :redface: I'll post more questions as and when they come up. Thanks in advance for your help.

Cheers

This is where the devil resides.

Remember the 80/20 rule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Standartweapons for this Time Infanterist are:

- P1 / Walther P38 (MG Gunner)

- MP 2A1 / Uzi (Sqt Leader)

- G3 / Heckler und Koch G3

- G3 ZF (Sniper)

- MG 3

- PzFst 44 / lePzFst

- schPzFst 84 / Carl Gustav

Ammo carried by the Soldiers:

P1 = 16 Rounds

MP 2A1 = 224 Rounds

G3 = 140 Rounds

MG 3 600 = Rounds

lePzFst = 4 Rounds

schPzFst = 3 Rounds

even more on the APC !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Servus,

1.

Yes he has TIS, I don`t know what is LRF?

He has no Stabilization and no Ballistic Computer.

I don`t find something that he lost his amphibious capability after

introduction of TIS.

If you want it make very real, so you have to make a new motorsound.

You cannot hear this vehicle, he can stand behind you with a running

machine and you hear nothing.

So you have to record silence and to rename this .wav file.

2.

Yes G3 was the standard rifle.

A typical combat load:

I had two magazine pouches, with 2 magazines in each, in summary 4.

Each magazin has 20 cartridges so we have 80 cartridges in the pouches.

One magazine in the rifle, one cartridge in the cartridge chamber = 21.

In summary 101. If you are a good soldier you prepare by yourself a double magazin for the rifle = 121.

And you have some more in your other pouches or backpack.

I don`t know if the panzeraufklärer had some ammo in her Luchs.

In the Marder we had a lot of ammo for reloading.

Where you found 7 pouches?

9565524rua.jpg

it´s an special Gerödel.

3. Is the "lePzF" anti-armour weapon for the rifle squads the same as the PzF44 which equipped the German army until replaced by the PzF3?

Yes, and you are welcome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Das gute alte Koppeltragegestell :-)...Got wie habe ich es "gemocht"

LRF = Objekt das bereich misst mit kohärentem licht

So sollte es LBM in Deutsch :biggrin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In German it is Laser Entfernungs Messer = LEM

But this was never used, just called it Laser or HZF....

Sorry for not have the right count of Reserve Ammo Pouches for the Infantry Guys.

But they ever look so cold and dirty, I never had a close interest to them ;-=

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You could place a Penalty Zone over bodies of water.

Thanks Hedgehog, that's a good suggestion though possibly a bit tedious to implement in practice, particularly where rivers are concerned. I'll give it a go though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Isn't that one of the reasons we're all SB fans? Welcome to the club! ;)

Well attention to detail with a streak of perfectionism is a blessing and a curse at times... If there's a club for people like me I'm happy to join it! :drink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Standartweapons for this Time Infanterist are:

- P1 / Walther P38 (MG Gunner)

- MP 2A1 / Uzi (Sqt Leader)

- G3 / Heckler und Koch G3

- G3 ZF (Sniper)

- MG 3

- PzFst 44 / lePzFst

- schPzFst 84 / Carl Gustav

Ammo carried by the Soldiers:

P1 = 16 Rounds

MP 2A1 = 224 Rounds

G3 = 140 Rounds

MG 3 600 = Rounds

lePzFst = 4 Rounds

schPzFst = 3 Rounds

even more on the APC !

Thanks Eisenschwein. I have to ask though, why a lePzFst and schPzFst? Seems like a lot of AT firepower for an infantry section? Was the longer range of the Carl Gustav important or the extra ~100mm of armour penetration?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well one is a single shot "personal" weapon the other is reloadable and supports the Platoon (regardless of its big signature).

I'm pretty sure the guys humping it (and its rounds) would have been happy with both the added range and the better penetration.

If you have 2 tanks coming at you and you can hit the first one as far away as possible it gives you some time to reload (or even reload and relocate) before having to deal with the second.

A bit like a person carrying a revolver as opposed to a single shot rifle. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Servus,

1.

Yes he has TIS, I don`t know what is LRF?

He has no Stabilization and no Ballistic Computer.

Thanks!

I don`t find something that he lost his amphibious capability after

introduction of TIS.

There's a few sources that state this, including:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luchs_(Spähpanzer))

http://panzerbaer.de/types/bw_spaehpz_2_luchs-a2.htm

Though I have relied on Google Translate to translate them.

2.

Yes G3 was the standard rifle.

A typical combat load:

I had two magazine pouches, with 2 magazines in each, in summary 4.

Each magazin has 20 cartridges so we have 80 cartridges in the pouches.

One magazine in the rifle, one cartridge in the cartridge chamber = 21.

In summary 101. If you are a good soldier you prepare by yourself a double magazin for the rifle = 121.

And you have some more in your other pouches or backpack.

I don`t know if the panzeraufklärer had some ammo in her Luchs.

In the Marder we had a lot of ammo for reloading.

Where you found 7 pouches?

It was just a best guess on my part. I'll use 121 rounds in the scenario.

3. Is the "lePzF" anti-armour weapon for the rifle squads the same as the PzF44 which equipped the German army until replaced by the PzF3?

Yes, and you are welcome.

Thanks very much for your detailed response, it's appreciated. :)

Edited by Panzer_Leader
Corrected broken link

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another question I've been meaning to ask: What is the best KE ammunition for the Leopard 1A5 to represent what the German army was fielding in 1989? In the list of options the only DE-specific KE round is DM23 from 1978 which was probably outdated by 1989. For now I'm using PPTFS M/85 LS from DK which penetrates 500mm RHA but this seems a bit high for the period. Perhaps PfeilPat 87 Lsp from CH in 1987 with 420mm penetration against RHA is a better fit for the period?

Edited by Panzer_Leader
Corrected CZ to CH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Servus Panzer_Leader,

If you want to know about the Leo1, Eisenschwein is your man.

I read the wiki about the Luchs and you are right.

Another thing is, he drives forward and backward with the same speed, because he has an extra backward driver. But I don`t know how to script this:biggrin:.

@eSim: We need a Luchs in the next update for Panzer_Leader.

best regards

Duke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I'm about 85% of the way through developing this scenario and I have a question about the CSS elements a panzer reconnaissance company may have had attached when expecting combat during the late Cold War. I've kept the CSS element pretty lean with a Wisent ARV, M113 Medic and M113 Repair only. Does this seem reasonable/realistic?

Thanks again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, missed this Topick....

In Mid 1988 the DM 33 was given as Ammo to the Leop 1 Units.

DM 33 has a 15 cm longer Penetrator comparabel with the Israelie M 413 (?) or the US M735 (?) , so 380 ~ 400 mm RHA is realistic.

Early of 1990 Bundeswehr introduce the DM 63 for the L7 with 500 ~ 600 mm RHA penetration.

Here is a List ( believe or not):

http://echo501.tripod.com/Military/105ammo.htm

In 1993 we shot with Training Rounds at 1500 m and penetrate T72 M1 Turret frontal.......

Bundeswehr never use M113 repair, 1 ARV per Company and one for the Maintenance Company. All other ride on light Trucks UNIMOG U 1300.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks very much Eisenschwein! I've selected the M735A1, which offers 390mm of RHA penetration in-game, as a DM33 proxy on this basis.

I've also dropped the M113 Repair and just have the Wisent ARV and M113 Medic in the CSS section now.

Thanks again :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@eSim: We need a Luchs in the next update for Panzer_Leader.

Funnily enough, I originally requested this in the 'Content Wish List' thread on January 8, 2012!

3. Crewable Luchs A2

Here's hoping... :drink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, one more question on this for my German friends :): in the scenario I have a CSS section of one Wisent ARV and one M113 Medic. I've assigned them to a fictional "Company 6" but assume they would actually be assigned to the headquarters section / platoon of Company 4, which is the company the kampfgruppe is derived from. In terms of the Callsign Template and the most accurate callsign to assign the CSS section in game, what should I use?

Thanks again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Servus Panzer_Leader,

we call it Kompanieführungsgruppe (KpFüGrp).

1 ARV = 1 BergeTrp

1 Medic = 1 SanTrp

I put this in the scenariofile, please check I made it after nightshift.

best regards

Duke

Thanks very much Duke. I've included these callsigns in the Callsign Template which will be published with v1.1. This update will also include the feedback from PzBtl 911's play-through shared by Falli.

It goes without saying that I really appreciate your help with this :D:thumbup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A question for the experts on Soviet armour on this forum: if I'm using the T-80U as a proxy for the T-64BV in the 1989 time frame, what is the most appropriate KE ammunition to use? Default for the T-80U is BM-42 but, although it was available at this time it would have been rather new and, I suspect, rare. Is BM-32 a more representative choice for the T-64BV in 1989?

Thanks in advance! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...