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Controversial Strategy

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I have known about attacking the enemy's base of operations for some time, in most places a taboo strategy:mad2:, and after watching

, I have a question: Is it prohibited on Steel Beasts servers to pull off base raids like this?:nuke: And whether or not it's allowed, what vehicles would be best? I don't mean to stir up a hornet's nest, I just want to know.

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Find a "Base" In SBP then we can have this discussion.

Seriussly, sounds like you havent played SB at all?

/KT

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I've played for a month or two, I'm just new to this forum. I just need some clarification: by "Find a 'Base'", do you mean my reputation in this forum, or a thread about bases? What I have to say is: I'm sorry if I ticked people off, and if you want me to shut up on the matter, I'll wait until I'm at least a full-fledged member. And/or if you want me to find a thread about bases to explain myself, I'll do that. If there are no threads about bases already existing, I'll make my own, which might not sit well with some people. So could you spare me and others some trouble and create it yourself?

I saw the possibility of some controversy over this thread, but I wasn't expecting this. I know that probably not every online SB game has defined "bases", despite what it may appear from my newness. But still, I shouldn't have to expect something like this every time I propose something new:

Posted by Kingtiger

Seriussly (sic), sounds like you havent played SB at all?

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There are no bases as such in Steel Beasts. There may be command and control centers. If they are in a scenario, they are probably worth points for destroying them.

Steel Beasts is very unlike any shooter game you've played.

But the video was funny. :)

Hook

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Posted by LarryHookns

There are no bases as such in Steel Beasts. There may be command and control centers.

Of course. Back when I was laying things out, I was talking more about hubs of lines of communication, and staging areas for units being interpreted as "bases". Speaking of the former, having say, BRDM-2ATs ambushing units as they move up:sonic: is something worth considering. But your idea is worth something too.

Posted by LarryHookins

If they are in a scenario, they are probably worth points for destroying them.

They very well could be.

Posted by LarryHookins

Steel Beasts is very unlike any shooter game you've played.

Well, the only experience I've had with shooters was a brief stint in BF 2142. Aside from that, I still play one nice RTS called DropTeam, which is not unlike SB in some ways.

Posted by LarryHookins

But the video was funny.:)

It's nice to hear. But I'm not in the business of "Funny Video Central". I'm here to enjoy and contribute to a very nice game. If no one else has any objections (at least rational ones), I'll try to lay out the tactical and deployment basics in my next post. Because my philosophy on strategies and tactics is strategies are the ends, and tactics are the means to those ends.

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For the most part it depends on the scenario designer and how he wants to set things up. Although there aren't any buildings that represent a functioning "base", we do have supply vehicles that could be used as a substitute.

Don't worry about KT. He's a good guy and he doesn't bite unless you submit a thumbnail image that is over 128 Pixels in size. :)

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Posted by Tacbat

Don't worry about KT. He's a good guy and he doesn't bite unless you submit a thumbnail image that is over 128 Pixels in size. :)

I won't worry, Tacbat. Maybe his immature little brother:mad: got a hold of KT's place on the forums because he forgot to log out and decided to use it to smart off.:debile2:

Posted by Tacbat

Although there aren't any buildings that represent a functioning "base", we do have supply vehicles that could be used as a substitute.

Well, my idea of a base, as I've mentioned in my last post, was a sort of combination lines of communication hub and staging area for units. Most likely supply vehicles, most likely organized around a town or a terrain feature.

Now that I've gotten the OK, I'll elaborate on how to create these "baseraiding" assaults. First, the raiding force must be fast. Fast enough to get from one side of the map to another in, say, about 9 minutes (Let me know if that's too fast). Its job will be to find the enemy's base (or what passes for it), then call down artillery while shooting anything that survives to move away. Also, it will seize targets of opportunity, such as reinforcing columns and report them in while harassing them.

For Red, a mixed group of 1 BRDM-2 AT platoon, 2 BTR-80s, and 3 Mil-Mi 24 "Hinds" carrying BMD-2s and troops, for a total of about 2 reinforced platoons. Red can better afford to allocate resources like this because of numbers, and will have better chances of finding something thanks to the Hinds, but they will have to be separate from the ground forces, lest Blue figure out the baseraiders' position.

For Blue, the same basic requirements still apply. But because of fewer resources from which to draw on a baseraiding force, the raiding force will have to pull more weight, including making recon and ambushing reinforcements another priority to compensate. The composition of Blue's baseraiding force should be 1 1/2 platoons of ASLAV (1 platoon ASLAV-25, 1 section ASLAV-PC), 1 Humvee TOW section , and 1 Humvee .50-caliber for unit commander. While Blue's baseraiding force is smaller, it will be harder to find, and it will pull double duty out of necessity.

In conclusion, there are ways to combat baseraiders. I've come up with a few good ideas, but I'll let you find them out on your own.

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Nah when I ment bases I ment bases ingame.

there is no such thing as spawning points in MP etc. and 99% scenarios dont have a "base" to take, normal stuff is a assembly area but its always just from when the scenario starts and its always far away from enemy forces.

so there is no such kind of base to attack like you saw in the video. Sure a scenario designer kan create a "capture the base" scenario or so but that still not the same as in the Vid.

and no, I dont have a lill brother, I was just really really suprised over the post you wrote so I couldnt give another answer.

And njet tavaratich, you havent ticked anyone of (not me atleast).

But if you do upload a thumbnail larger then 128*128Pixels when uploading stuff you might tick me off ;)

And your scenario sounds intressting, but to me its souns like ordinary combat after you penetrated enemy lines and are cutting thrue hes rear echelons, still no contact with the vid you posted.

I cant remember last time I got pissed of by someone on this forum

oh yeah Now I do, Gibsondude who posted something in CMSF forum that pissed me holy off, despite he was right in some parts.

Im a swede, we are always nice, unless you provoke our King and most of all our princesses, thats like asking for a death sentence.

/KT

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9 minutes to cross 60Km? Thats pretty damn fast.

(Okay Abstract Figure but you know what i mean)

Tanks can only go about 40KpH (downhill with the wind behind it) Helos could move faster....

And as for the raiding forces I'd suggest the CV9040 (40mm death Mmmmm)

You do have to remember the objectives will require the destruction this Supply dump/area, otherwise its a just for fun exercise....

KT, These Princesses hot?

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There is no servers per se as in most other games.

One person being a "Host " will start up the game and others will join for the duration of that mission.

It is up to the scenario designer to state the missions goals...so if you want to drive around looking for some bases ....that may or may not exist go ahead.

You try to work as a team to complete a mission , and hopefully not go off lone wolf.

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Posted by Kingtiger

normal stuff is a assembly area but its always just from when the scenario starts and its always far away from enemy forces.

Oh. But from what I've seen, you probably can create temporary supply dumps with a few supply trucks, I suppose.

Posted by Kingtiger

so there is no such kind of base to attack like you saw in the video.

Too bad. It would have been fun to sing immediately after blowing up the base and riddling it, "All your bases, base, base, all your bases are belong to us!":nukem2::cool2:, like in the video. But it's as you said, that's not the way it works in real life, and if it were a reality, there would always be the possibility of spawnkillers:decu:.

Posted by Kingtiger

But if you do upload a thumbnail larger then 128*128Pixels when uploading stuff you might tick me off ;)

Feel lucky that I don't know how to upload thumbnails yet. But I'll try not to tick you off in the future.

oh yeah Now I do, Gibsondude who posted something in CMSF forum that pissed me holy off, despite he was right in some parts.

You were on the Battlefront forums? I'm there too as 152mmDumbRocket.

Could you provide me a link to the topic where you had a tangle with Gibsondude? The only Kingtigers I could find in the directory were from Wisconsin and Missouri.

Posted by (see above)

Im a swede, we are always nice, unless you provoke our King and most of all our princesses, thats like asking for a death sentence.

Sweden's still a constitutional monarchy?;)

Posted by Hedgehog

9 minutes to cross 60Km? Thats pretty damn fast.

I was being unrealistic. I'm sorry.

Posted by Hedgehog

And as for the raiding forces I'd suggest the CV9040 (40mm death Mmmmm)

You do have to remember the objectives will require the destruction this Supply dump/area, otherwise its a just for fun exercise....

Interesting choice. I was going for as many wheels as possible in my approach. And yes, the destruction of supply dumps is a top priority.

Posted by Hedgehog

KT, These Princesses hot?

Given that they're Swedish, I assume they are.

Posted by sabot_ready

It is up to the scenario designer to state the missions goals...so if you want to drive around looking for some bases ....that may or may not exist go ahead.

You try to work as a team to complete a mission , and hopefully not go off lone wolf.

I know, and I'm working on developing techniques that will bring finding supply dumps to an art. Finally, during my brief (but very influencing) time on BF 2142, I saw the folly of lone wolfing it, and I assure you that is the last thing I will ever do.

I think the best thing now is to reduce the numbers of units in these groups and make them do deep recon, and attacking targets of opportunity. But that's all.

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be careful around darkangel and tankhunter.

if they smell anything close to BF2, they go into a furious bloodrage,

and will promptly force you to eat yourself alive, or beat you to death with your own limbs.

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Oh. But from what I've seen, you probably can create temporary supply dumps with a few supply trucks, I suppose.

Too bad. It would have been fun to sing immediately after blowing up the base and riddling it, "All your bases, base, base, all your bases are belong to us!":nukem2::cool2:, like in the video. But it's as you said, that's not the way it works in real life, and if it were a reality, there would always be the possibility of spawnkillers:decu:.

Feel lucky that I don't know how to upload thumbnails yet. But I'll try not to tick you off in the future.

You were on the Battlefront forums? I'm there too as 152mmDumbRocket.

Could you provide me a link to the topic where you had a tangle with Gibsondude? The only Kingtigers I could find in the directory were from Wisconsin and Missouri.

Sweden's still a constitutional monarchy?;)

I was being unrealistic. I'm sorry.

Interesting choice. I was going for as many wheels as possible in my approach. And yes, the destruction of supply dumps is a top priority.

Given that they're Swedish, I assume they are.

I know, and I'm working on developing techniques that will bring finding supply dumps to an art. Finally, during my brief (but very influencing) time on BF 2142, I saw the folly of lone wolfing it, and I assure you that is the last thing I will ever do.

I think the best thing now is to reduce the numbers of units in these groups and make them do deep recon, and attacking targets of opportunity. But that's all.

what the hell is going on???

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Greetings,

I don't post much and don't want to sound negative, but I just don't get it.

I completely understand Recon, Destroying or Neutralizing enemy support and supply areas, and lightning raids, what I don't understand is how any of these real world tactics have to do with that video.

I have yet to play SB online but I really can't see the majority of SB owners playing in a situation where actions like those in the video would occur. From the videos and AARs I can recall, action is measured and consistent, and not about "base-raping" someone.

Maybe I just don't understand what this entire thread is about but it really seems like this thread has somehow found its way here from Counter-Strike, BF2, or the like.

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Posted by phaeden

but I just don't get it.

Maybe I just don't understand what this entire thread is about but it really seems like this thread has somehow found its way here from Counter-Strike, BF2, or the like.

I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to expound "base-raping" as the newest tactic in SB, I was just trying to use the video to envision the results of a lighting raid into enemy territory, and I didn't understand how that was so limited, which is partly why I created this thread, to see the limits this idea would encounter in Steel Beasts. Again, I'm sorry for not explaining sooner. You see, my flights of fancy tend to bouce high above reality at first, but normally, I get off my initial high before I write. This time, however, I woke up in the morning fresh with the idea which had started to come together the previous night. As a result, I only caught myself in the middle of 2 pages of people mostly asking questions like this::(

Posted by Dragon6g

what the hell is going on???

And it's clear I have a long way to go before anything I suggest doesn't produce 2 pages of people mostly asking the same thing. I did play BF 2142 for a brief time, but I'm not a stupid "u s--- L0L111!!!1" lone wolf hungry-for-free-(illegal)-downloads-of-his-favorite-games hacker:Crash: aimbot-spewing 10-year old whose online communications are loaded with nothing of note except flippant use of expletives:tongue::mad2:.

You'll have to excuse my relative noob self for a while, but someday, I promise I'll be as...well, as proper as the rest of you.

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be careful around darkangel and tankhunter.

if they smell anything close to BF2, they go into a furious bloodrage,

and will promptly force you to eat yourself alive, or beat you to death with your own limbs.

Na, just a little bit of fun with a sander and salt. Maybe even throw some honey in there too dependent on the local wildlife :twisted: ;)

But seriously, if you want to start with some multi play you will probably want to join in with the SB Generals. They seem to be fairly active and they will probably welcome you with open arms.

TC

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You'll have to excuse my relative noob self for a while, but someday, I promise I'll be as...well, as proper as the rest of you.

Don't worry about it... You're doing just fine. You don't learn if don't ask questions.

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Na, just a little bit of fun with a sander and salt. Maybe even throw some honey in there too dependent on the local wildlife :twisted: ;)

But seriously, if you want to start with some multi play you will probably want to join in with the SB Generals. They seem to be fairly active and they will probably welcome you with open arms.

TC

After reading all of this I'd say "The Generals" are the place for him as well. LOL:biggrin:

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Thanks, Homer. You've kept my confidence alive.:)

Hunter, thanks. I'll see about joining them. I'm downloading the 2.370 beta tomorrow, and when I have a Logitech microphone (either from the miracle of Newegg, or the mundaneness of my local Staples, depending on which has it), and TeamSpeak, I'll be ready come Friday.:cool2::gun::gun: Here's hoping I do well!:drink:

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The whole idea of destroying LOC , supply lines , fuel dumps and command centers in not a radical idea and has nothing to do with futuristic doctrine or strategy.

As another member of this forum will gladly explain , General Sherman in the Civil War used the deep raid to great effect.

In WW2 Allied Air forces main mission was to destroy the Axis factories deep behind enemy lines and the Bombers escorts secondary mission was to go after "targets of opportunity"

The enemy is the enemy..so you hurt him in any way how.

Supply dumps in SB are most of the time just that in name...they can RF/RA , but the size of the battle and the time frames that most missions encompass

do not make them as important as they would be in real life.

But to create a mission where the goal is go deep behind enemy lines and take out the Depot/Kill the General/rescue the hostages.... can be done and has been done...

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The Older princess:

krpr.jpg

The Younger princess:

madde2.jpg

Nownow, dont you all try to immigrate to sweden, we cant handle more refuges!

/KT

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I know the tale of Sherman's March, and it was a very broad effort, designed to end the South's capacity to make war (whatever that was left, anyway). What I'm talking about here is something not unlike the LRDG (Long Range Desert Group) in WWII. Pay note to what Rommel said about them in the link.

I'll lay out the basic idea now. This group (a good name, I think, would be the Hopebusters) will do recon, while attacking targets of opportunity. But if their target is a sizable force, they will require permission from their commanders. For Blue (the only side I'll cover for now), the order of battle will be 1 platoon CV9040, and I platoon M3A2 (they should be pretty available, given they only hold 2 troops, and thus everyone will want the M2A2, with 6 troops, for the assault or defense). They will find the enemy as shown and report to the company and/or the battalion commander.

Then, after being given permission...

:gun::eek2:

:gun::eek2:

Posted by sabot_ready

In WW2 Allied Air forces main mission was to destroy the Axis factories deep behind enemy lines and the Bombers escorts secondary mission was to go after "targets of opportunity"

Yes, but also don't forget that the Germans rebuilt so fast it would make Ferraris jealous, they dispersed their factories all over Germany, and hid them underground. It was not until the Allies moved to attacking oil production and lines of communication that the RAF and the "Mighty Eighth" started to make a difference.

Now for a seemingly unrelated question: What were the Germans dong in May 1940? Besides going on the mother of all power trips, they were unleashing blitzkrieg. And no one understood blitzkrieg better than the XIX Panzer Corps commander, Heinz Guderian, the father of modern warfare. Let's pause for a moment in respect, shall we?

Back to the history lesson. After Guderian broke through the French at Sedan, he just kept going. There was no looking around for the HQs of Allies who were about to be shoved off the Continent. Guderian simply sped westward, cutting communications, shooting up whatever scattered resistance he found, and generally bringing the fear of God to the French Army. In Blitzkrieg, Len Deighton talks about something that kept him safe all that time: "All this time, Guderian, on the south side of the offensive, had depended on the Aisne, Serre, and Somme rivers to protect his left flank. He had rightly believed that the French would not mount a full-scale counterattack until they were sure of his exact position. he kept moving."

And here is one of the greatest strengths of the Hopebusters: the mere fact that they exist and they're coming for you. If you knew a raiding party was lurking somewhere in the area where vehicles from the unofficial staging area are moving up to reinforce the attack, would you:

A: Ignore them. After all, a few rogue units are nothing to worry about, right?

B: Reroute reinforcements by another, longer route to avoid them, thus costing time.

C: Take some units and try to hunt them down, while those units are occupied and of no use to you now.

Most likely, you'll do B and C, and thus you've been disrupted. Remember, Waterloo was decided when Blucher's Prussians caught Napoleon off guard. He had at first thought they were Grouchy's troops returning. But when he realized they were Prussian, he made decisions that lost the battle.

Posted by sabot_ready

The enemy is the enemy..so you hurt him in any way how.

We haven't agreed on much, but this is one thing I can agree with you on. And that's why I created the Hopebusters in the first place.

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