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Panzer_Leader

French intervention in Mali

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The main reason of such military involvement isn't because mali is a former colony.

When french ambassador receive a request letter from malian government, that means something should be done (moreover when nobody take good measures).

I find strange that neither UN nor US get more involved, since it just a continuation of the fight against terrorism.

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The main reason of such military involvement isn't because mali is a former colony.

When french ambassador receive a request letter from malian government, that means something should be done (moreover when nobody take good measures).

I find strange that neither UN nor US get more involved, since it just a continuation of the fight against terrorism.

Well I guess it is because France recognises the UN is a toothless feel good organisation, that when it really matters couldn't organise a preverbial pissup, because of those sod in China & Russia who veto anything that threatens the existance of a dictatorship.

Also the US has become reluctant to become involved because of the whole "Vietnam" syndrom that has reoccurred in Afghanistan. (I maybe wrong here, but it seems to be poilitical reluctance to get involved in another gorund skirmish)

So.

Well Done France. :)

Give those jumped up little s**ts a bloody good hiding. :thumbup:

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I find strange that neither UN nor US get more involved, since it just a continuation of the fight against terrorism.
Mali is one of the poorest countries in the world. The average worker's annual salary is approximately US$1,500. [...]

Cotton is the country's largest crop export and is exported west throughout Senegal and Côte d'Ivoire. [...] In addition to cotton, Mali produces rice, millet, corn, vegetables, tobacco, and tree crops.

Need I say more?

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The main reason of such military involvement isn't because mali is a former colony.

When french ambassador receive a request letter from malian government, that means something should be done (moreover when nobody take good measures).

I find strange that neither UN nor US get more involved, since it just a continuation of the fight against terrorism.

I'm sure it played a role when the Mali government was contemplating which country to ask for assistance...

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Well, the whole jihady-tourist brigade was having a good time in north africa allready. If we allow them to establish a save heaven there, we would not have snakes in our backyard(i.e. AFG) but under our bed!!

Mali alone would have no chance to takle the boarder-crossing(Mauretania-Algeria-Niger-Tschad...) networks of extremist. Last time they looked the Malien army had shrunk to about 2000 men of doubtable combat effectivenes.

So in my p.o.v.: act or risk our interessts in the whole of north africa!

Good that france took the initiative!

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Not sure if I agree with your assessment that Afghanistan is "our backyard", but rest assured, I wouldn't want to be under your bed.

;)

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Not sure if I agree with your assessment that Afghanistan is "our backyard", but rest assured, I wouldn't want to be under your bed.

;)

Note, that was written with one "s" only...

To point it out for those less able to grasp a metaphor ;) :

If AQ was bad 10000miles away in AFG, its worse having them just across the mediteranian sea.

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Hm. I don't care about where they start their journey. To actually come to the EU, they have to cross the borders - by foot, by boat, by car, or by plane. It might be easier for people from Morocco and Algeria to enter the EU through Spain and Italy. But the Greek borders are just as porous (or secure, depending on whether you're a "glass is half empty" type). The major difference is that they pose a bigger threat to our tourists (since Afghanistan never was a popular destination). That in itself isn't new (think of Djerba, the various incidents in Egypt, etc.).

The bigger threat IMO are people who get "inspired" by Islamofascist ideology. You can't stop ideas at the border, and if a weak-minded psycho decides that he wants to blow people up in the EU - well, you can only hope that he's not very clever (or not very skilled in making bombs). It's called "domestic terrorism" and Europe has plenty of experience with it (though not necessarily an immaculate balance sheet).

I'm not against trying to help Mali, mind you. I'm just not convinced that Mali instead of Afghanistan is a fundamentally different situation that should ratchet up our general alert level by several notches. It's the same bad shit, just in a different location. Hopefully we won't repeat in Mali the stupid mistakes that we made in Afghanistan.

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I can recommend this (two page) article in Foreign Affairs for some background on the conflict and France's motivation: http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/138767/susanna-wing/making-sense-of-mali#cid=soc-twitter-at-snapshot-making_sense_of_mali-000000

This article in the LA Times sheds some light on the tension in the US position and reason for limited response thus far: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-us-mali-20130119,0,1649925.story

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Need I say more?

Well, as PanzerLeader pointed out :

And critics are not wrong to point out that France has important strategic and economic interests in the region. (France's nuclear power plants feed off the uranium mines in nearby Niger.) But the idea that these factors drove France's intervention is incorrect.

Plus as far as I remember from my geological lessons, they got some gold mines as well.

But the most important thing to bear in mind is that terrorism is getting close to europe. It's no longer far away in the middle east.

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But the most important thing to bear in mind is that terrorism is getting close to europe. It's no longer far away in the middle east.

Hang on, its been in Europe for a while.

Baader meinhof in Germany

Brigate Rosse / Red Brigades in Italy

ETA / Basque in Spain

IRA Vs loyalist paramilitaries in Northern Ireland

...

All seemed to be pretty good at it a while ago.

More recently you have had:

2004 Madrid train bombings (11-M)

July 2005 London bombings (7/7)

Anders Behring Breivik in Norway

You don't have to come from the "sandpit" to be a nutter.

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And critics are not wrong to point out that France has important strategic and economic interests in the region. (France's nuclear power plants feed off the uranium mines in nearby Niger.)...

Why do people always say something like that, like it's a bad thing?

Hell, we had a president that had to go 'cos he said that securing our trade routes and raw-material sources is part of the security policy and a task for the BW too.

:-(

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Hang on, its been in Europe for a while.

Baader meinhof in Germany

Brigate Rosse / Red Brigades in Italy

ETA / Basque in Spain

IRA Vs loyalist paramilitaries in Northern Ireland

...

All seemed to be pretty good at it a while ago.

More recently you have had:

2004 Madrid train bombings (11-M)

July 2005 London bombings (7/7)

Anders Behring Breivik in Norway

You don't have to come from the "sandpit" to be a nutter.

True, but Al qaida proved to be far more serious than those previously mentioned, since a sad day in september.

France Brings Bigger Gunships, Heavy Artillery to Mali as Militants Dig In:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/01/mali-heavy-firepower/

Thanks Rump. As from a friend of mine, I heard CAESARs would deployed.

Looks like France is taking the gloves off.

(Might we see the deployment of the Leclerc..... (I do hope so :) )

Unfortunately the Leclerc as been burried by french army a loong time ago. They manage to make it non-operational by a stupid maintenance system. Everybody knows that a machine (car, truck, tank, whatever) needs to function a minimum of time to be reliable. The eggheads upstairs sure don't know that... Not telling you the lot of bullsh*t invented by EMAT to denigrate it...

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Why do people always say something like that, like it's a bad thing?

Hell, we had a president that had to go 'cos he said that securing our trade routes and raw-material sources is part of the security policy and a task for the BW too.

:-(

Well, don't forget that we Germans are particularly neurotic when it comes to all things military; add to that a thick crust of bigotry and self-loathing.

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Unfortunately the Leclerc as been burried by french army a loong time ago.

Maybe was I wrong.

I heard that some spare parts are prepared from Gulf Falcon and something like four tanks as well (a maximum of 16 Leclerc 13 VBL that are possibly divertable towards Mali).

It's coherent but still need to be confirmed.

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Well, don't forget that we Germans are particularly neurotic when it comes to all things military; add to that a thick crust of bigotry and self-loathing.

The German nation does make good defense kit.

And, you do have excellent sales people.

So, could be worse. :biggrin:

Maybe was I wrong.

I heard that some spare parts are prepared from Gulf Falcon and something like four tanks as well .

Sounds like you have a 1st class scrounger. :)

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Am I the only one to think that invading a country - particularly if the invader has a colonial history - is usually counter productive? History shows it often serves only to unite the squabbling factions in that country against 'the oppressor' - if only until they are thrown out. It may be cynical but isn't a good strategy to employ against hostile nations or movements fomenting and encouraging internal strife?

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I'm sure most of the people in Mali will welcome the French. Many of the extreamists are foreingers and probably hated by the locals.

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I'm sure most of the people in Mali will welcome the French. Many of the extreamists are foreingers and probably hated by the locals.

Indeed I read in those articles linked that the extremists have been displaced/invading from Libya, and imposing hardline sharia law in areas under their control.

So my guess is the French foot troopers would be cautiously welcomed as liberators.

This situation is similar to Sierra Leone, but on a bigger scale, Tjay.

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So my guess is the French foot troopers would be cautiously welcomed as liberators.

Let's hope so.

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Agreed, except that France was asked to help by Mali. :)

True, but we went in to Afghanistan at the request (or with the approval of) the legitimate government, and all that seems to have done is temporarily unite the anti-government forces against us. Of course, once we have left, they will resume their centuries-long traditional of tribal warfare, with one faction possibly overthrowing the current government, until they, in turn, are overthrown by another faction. And once again, many soldiers' lives will have been lost for absolutely nothing. Deja vu all over again, as they say.

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