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Syrian tank raids

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Here is a massive 30 minutes footage of armored units engaging within urban area - Syrian civil war - Hell on Earth - poor bastards:

rd_8E_KSY0o

I found it interesting how they manouvered with the tanks and IFVs - almost like soilders on foot, shoulder to shoulder covering each other and using smokescreen.

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The tactics adopted by both sides appear to be to simply smash up any neighbourhood occupied by your opponents - rather than trying to winkle them out and re-occupy the area. Whatever the outcome, Syria is going to be a total mess for the forseable future. Another 'Arab Block' country we don't have to worry about then...

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Guest Killjoy
The tactics adopted by both sides appear to be to simply smash up any neighbourhood occupied by your opponents - rather than trying to winkle them out and re-occupy the area.

They use the T-72s to smash their way in and then use BMPs and Infantry to clear the buildings.

However, both sides in this conflict deserve to good kicking.

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Another 'Arab Block' country we don't have to worry about then...

Well arguably that is exactly the sort of country to worry about, if the West Bank and Gaza are any measure.

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Guest Killjoy
Standard UK armour urban tactics if I remember rightly

I was gonna say..

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Well arguably that is exactly the sort of country to worry about, if the West Bank and Gaza are any measure.

Personally, I don't feel threatened by either of those places. They seem to have priorities other than bringing down Western 'civilization' - namely, fighting amongst themselves.

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Personally, I don't feel threatened by either of those places. They seem to have priorities other than bringing down Western 'civilization' - namely, fighting amongst themselves.

The basic philosophy, the ideas in which Islamic society believes go against the most basic ideas of Western liberal society: i.e. freedom of religion, separation of church and state, equality of all before the law, democratic processes/systems, free speech with freedom of press... With only a few exceptions, Islam is not tolerant of much and while you can mix Jews, Buddhists, Hindu's and Christians all together and not have any issues, you end up with problems as soon as you inject Muslims with anyone else, even in a secular European society.

This is ultimately an ideological conflict even though many in the West (which has become secular) don't want to see it this way because for the westerner religion has been relegated to the old and sick with only some culturally identifying themselves as Christian but VERY FEW really practicing it. However, in Islamic nations, religion is the sole means around which society is organized. From the Mufti (a judge) that interprets the Sharia, the Imam (cleric) that in all reality controls the information, a Madras (school) that teaches Islam all day... From how you do business, a woman's role/purpose in life, your sexual practices, dress, food, entertainment etc... everything is their world is viewed through an Islamic filter. Let me get even more basic for you. The words written in a document like the US/German Constitution go against the teachings and beliefs of this culture/people.

Look at the end of Iraq, Afghanistan, our general downplaying of the threats within our own borders as well as the events surrounding Egypt and Libya as a "pause." Not even a question about it, we'll be back there eventually because that stinking, filthy, rat infested backward place with little nasty looking people, is where they breed folks that will chop your head off in a blink of an eye for no reason other than because you're an infidel. We live in a world that is global (Internet/sat TV/cell phone - trade - resources - multicultural societies in the West) and what happens in the streets in some backward Middle East regime can affects things all the way back to London.

The West is simply not united because there are economic interests at stake (Iraq and Libya are good examples), no one wants to deal with the political blow back within their own country (you already have an Islamic consideration in elections), no one wants to deal with the security implications if you push back. The notion of separating or peeling out a certain group based on their religion or origin is appalling to Westerners. Politicians as well as policy makers alike are short sighted and worried about the political expediency in their decisions. This isn't an issue where we are facing immediate destruction/obliteration as in the Cold War so we can "kick the can down the road," in so far how and what we will do about this problem. But no matter how much we pretend it away, this isn't a boogie-man that is a mere imaginary threat, no this way of thinking is mutually exclusive and completely opposed to Western thought and it's only a matter of time before we're back in the Middle East.

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With only a few exceptions, Islam is not tolerant of much and while you can mix Jews, Buddhists, Hindu's and Christians all together and not have any issues, you end up with problems as soon as you inject Muslims with anyone else, even in a secular European society.

There are lots of Muslims in Silicon Valley, Deerborn Michigan is known for its large Muslim population, and you don't have these problems from them.

So there must be other dimensions- poverty and lack of education, since many recruits into radicalized groups tend to be associated with these factors.

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More AFV footage from Syria. It includes footage from both sides of the same engagement, and a T-72's ammo explosion.

BbHcA6mXX7o

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Very sobering videos. Three souls gone in a flash.

The Syrian armor seem very coordinated. What say you Western tankers?

Moving around in buildup areas is just bad. AFV's need Inf support to take and hold ground. Without the Inf we can see tanks being destroyed by RPG's by the hundreds. The T-72 and BMP combo looks like it works, but as we can see above is no protection from RPG's all the time. The Inf should be present with in RPG range all around the tanks to provide their ring of anti-RPG protection to give the said INF that direct fire option when needed. I feel for the tankers.:frown:

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I think the reason for the lack of infantry use is that they get chewed up in the urban fighting. That division there is likely composed of Alawis and professional soldiers, so they are valuable in more than one way. You can try and take and hold ground, but when that force leaves that ground is lost again. They are fighting an attritional war, there are only so many willing to die for revolution in Syria.

Of course in areas around Damascus they have used infantry in the fighting, but I think that is only in particularly important areas.

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They aren't incompetent, but aren't really trained for urban combat and apply more or less the same tactics as the Russians did in Grozny, except that the enemy isn't as well organized as the Chechens back then. And the manpower of the Syrian Army is melting away, from around 200,000 one year ago to around 50,000 these days, according to press reports. Those 50,000 are probably the best that the Syrian Army had anyway, and they are probably highly motivated (=fighting for their survival), but they are insufficient to control large areas. They can smash places to pieces, but they can only occupy one heap of rubble at a time, and ruining the country isn't a war-winning strategy either.

It's a terrible tragedy, and it will probably take decades before anything good can come from all this.

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We live in a world that is global (Internet/sat TV/cell phone - trade - resources - multicultural societies in the West) and what happens in the streets in some backward Middle East regime can affects things all the way back to London..

I agree with you about the threat posed to Western civilisation by resurgent, militant Islam. It is very difficult to see how any liberal, secular culture can defend itself against a passionate (some would say extremist) religion-based movement. Anything is possible and permissible when you know absolutely without a shred of doubt that you are right and the everyone else is wrong.

Gaza and the West Bank may be symbolic, but are not in themselves a particular threat. IMHO.

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You folks are replying with very interesting viewpoints.

It's incredible how footage from both sides were incorporated with each other. The quality of the film was very impressive as well.

I showed my wife a portion of the video where a T72 was just destroyed and she asked why those tanks were going into town not even knowing where the enemy was. Astute observation from an untrained eye. Even I forgot that armor shouldn't go into urban areas without dismounted infantry. Still, I'm very impressed with how the tanks and bmp's were manuevering; these machines seem to take a life of their own in the videos. I've never seen anything like it; not from any WW2 film or Gulf War footage.

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'scuse bleedin' igrance, but what is the Soviet 'APC' without a turret but apparently a troop compartment with a raised roof? Perhaps it isn't an APC even...

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Jartsev answered that one in the video thread:

Its a czech BVP-1 AMB-S ambulance vehicle. Syrians got some in 90`s; have no idea how they are using those vehicles now...

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I thought it was a command vehicle myself.

Maybe it's used that way, didn't see any ambulance markings.

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