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To BTR or not to BTR that is the question.


hoggydog
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Ok this had probably been answered before (and I fully expect to get a link thrown back at me) but what are the main operational differences between Russian units operating the BMP family of vehicles and those with the BTR series?

Is it a front line/ second line units situation or just a different tool for a different job?

Ben

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I would say that comparing the BMP and the BTR are like comparing IFV with APC.

BMP/IFV are fighting vehicles, meaning that they take the troops; up to the battle, into the battle and beyond the battle.

The BTR and APC takes troops up to the battle, dismount the troops, then provide initial support (Like covering fire), and then comes up when its "safe" (Battlefields are never safe, but in lack of better word).

The BMP/IFV are meant to "go along" with the troops, to give them the mobility, firepower and protection so the troops can protect the tanks.

The BTR/APC are just a mean of transport (It sure beats walking)

Thats just my oppinion.

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Ok this had probably been answered before (and I fully expect to get a link thrown back at me) but what are the main operational differences between Russian units operating the BMP family of vehicles and those with the BTR series?

Is it a front line/ second line units situation or just a different tool for a different job?

Ben

There no sharply outlined difference between APC- or IFV equipped units at platoon, company and battalion level according to available regulations and manuals. Anti-tank capabilities are different.

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In a nutshell: BTRs offer much higher operational (=road-bound) mobility and, at the tactical level, a substantially higher dismount strength. BMPs have more firepower, marginally better protection, and a much better tactical (=offroad) mobility.

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In a nutshell: BTRs offer much higher operational (=road-bound) mobility and, at the tactical level, a substantially higher dismount strength. BMPs have more firepower, marginally better protection, and a much better tactical (=offroad) mobility.

In theory- yes, but on practice motorized rifles in Ogarkov`s brigades were BMP-mounted(if my memory does not fails). In any case its a kind of operational stuff and things related to mobilization capabilities.

And BTR costs a lot less than a BMP...

And have almost the same capabilities except firepower(not in case with BTR-82A)

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In the late Soviet era wasn't it also usually, though not always, the case (in GSFG at least) that each Motorised Rifle Division had one Motorised Rifle Regiment equipped with BMP and two with BTR?

Yes

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In the late Soviet era wasn't it also usually, though not always, the case (in GSFG at least) that each Motorised Rifle Division had one Motorised Rifle Regiment equipped with BMP and two with BTR?

Yes. In theory.

In reality, it would have been different and some divisions were probably equipped with 3 BTR regiments.

The TOE also says that every BMP regiment would have an SPA Battalion of 2S1 Gvozdika but I would guess in real life, some of the Category B and C divisions would instead be equipped with towed artillery like the D-30.

The D-30 is in theory only supposed to equipped in the BTR regiments though.

They would have wanted them all to be equipped with 2+1+1, BTR+BMP+ Tank but if you don't have the right numbers to fill them up, it is of course not possible to do that.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/accp/is3003/fig1-14.gif

TOE (or is it an OOB?) for a Soviet Motorized Rifle Division.

http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/19/p13_fileid/2151

For more interest, look here. Panzer Leader posted it and it is IMO the holy grail of Soviet OOBs and TOEs of the 1980's.

Although it is not the 1991 version like it says, but the 1984 version.

Any opinion on which version would be the most accurate?

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For more interest, look here. Panzer Leader posted it and it is IMO the holy grail of Soviet OOBs and TOEs of the 1980's.

Although it is not the 1991 version like it says, but the 1984 version.

What makes you say it's not the 1991 version but is 1984 version? What do you see to state that? I'm looking at my copy and it states June 1991, which states "This publication supersedes FM 100-2-3 16 July 1984".

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What makes you say it's not the 1991 version but is 1984 version? What do you see to state that? I'm looking at my copy and it states June 1991, which states "This publication supersedes FM 100-2-3 16 July 1984".

IIRC, the dead giveaway is the reference names given to the organization. If it says something like "Mechanized Infantry Bde" (anything "brigade") then it is 1990s and beyond. If it says "Motorized Rifle Regt" (anything "regiment") then it is 1980s and prior.

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IIRC, the dead giveaway is the reference names given to the organization. If it says something like "Mechanized Infantry Bde" (anything "brigade") then it is 1990s and beyond. If it says "Motorized Rifle Regt" (anything "regiment") then it is 1980s and prior.

Thanks, I stand corrected.

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OK, I'm confused now. The first part of FM 100-2-3, which is also available to download at http://www.steelbeasts.com/Downloads/p13_sectionid/19/p13_fileid/2150, clearly states "June 1991" on the cover and "Headquarters, Department of the Army, Washington DC, 6 June 1991" on page 2. Page 2 also has a footer stating "*This publication supersedes FM 100-2-3, 16 July 1984". Part 2 available in Downloads is simply a continuation of the same document so I'm not sure why there's a belief it's actually the 1984 version? :confused:

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Looking at Chapter 4 it states only Motorized Rifle Regiment (BTR) and Motorized Rifle Regiment (BMP) not Mechanized Rifle Regiment. To me the structure is the same no matter what it is labeled Motorized or Mechanized. Also looking at FM 100-63 it is labeled Mechanized Infantry Brigade, and FM 7-100.4 labeled it as Mechanized Infantry Brigade as well. Like Volcano stated it has to do with the year.

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What makes you say it's not the 1991 version but is 1984 version? What do you see to state that? I'm looking at my copy and it states June 1991, which states "This publication supersedes FM 100-2-3 16 July 1984".

I seem to be mistaken, sorry.

I have my own version of the 1991 and the 1984 version.

I'll post it later so we can see which is the correct version.

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Thanks guys. Those docs have really helped. I've always had a soft spot for the BTR over the BMP (maybe because its crewable).

Anyone know if Soviet era kitchen vehicles are being modelled in the new update :P

Probably a Ural Truck.

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