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Consolation Prize No. 4


Ssnake
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How do you visualize changes in air pressure, or air temperature? Even wind is invisible in clean air. We can only visualize the effects of it on other things - like bullet tracers and aerosols like smoke and dust clouds.

I wouldn't worry about the first 2 in terms of visuals - but wind definiately comes into my mind - trees, bushes bending due to the wind, sand and dirt being kicked up and carried by the wind, changing visibility etc. not to mention Snow and rain which combined with heavy wind can have a radical impact on visibility among other things.

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I appreciate that some members would really like a 'Full Realism' sim, but am I the only one who is a bit concerned that too much complexity in the PE version might actually be a turn-off for those of a less dedicated inclination?

HERETIC!!! BURN HIM!!!

Wash your mouth out with soap!!

:biggrin:

As Ssnake Mentioned, this will only affect scenarios where the designer has specified changes in the weather/atmospheric conditions.

Otherwise they will remain at default values.

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(If Boresighting with "Fleet Method" you shouldn´t care about this anyway. Sorry couldn´t resist)

Eis, separate this - Borsighting - from this - Accuracy Screening - and you'll be well on your way to enlightenment. Sorry, couldn't resist. :biggrin:

As for the weather additions in 3.0, I'm lovin' it! :thumbup:

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The single most influential factor to thermal imagers seems to be actual precipitation. As long as we don't have rain or snow animations, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to make the thermal sensors worse. As soon as there ARE going to be those animations, I'm sure they will have an effect on the thermal images as well.

Thanks Ssnake. I appreciate weather animations won't make it into 3.0 but I'm personally very excited about the potential for weather to impact visibility (and degrade the "all seeing" TIS) and influence gameplay. Think sitting in your tank or IFV in the rain or snow, knowing there's infantry in those trees on that objective you need to clear but not being able to pick them out because of degraded TI, now that's cool! :debile2:

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Thanks Ssnake. I appreciate weather animations won't make it into 3.0 but I'm personally very excited about the potential for weather to impact visibility (and degrade the "all seeing" TIS) and influence gameplay. Think sitting in your tank or IFV in the rain or snow, knowing there's infantry in those trees on that objective you need to clear but not being able to pick them out because of degraded TI, now that's cool! :debile2:

No it's not. It's bloody frightening. But on the other hand as the Mech Inf specialist (:biggrin:) in UKA who frequently finds himself out on the ground with his troops (usually pleading with the ATM guy to please, fire at the eny tank crossing his front at 100m) perhaps it's rather a good thing.

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Thanks Ssnake. I appreciate weather animations won't make it into 3.0 but I'm personally very excited about the potential for weather to impact visibility (and degrade the "all seeing" TIS) and influence gameplay. Think sitting in your tank or IFV in the rain or snow, knowing there's infantry in those trees on that objective you need to clear but not being able to pick them out because of degraded TI, now that's cool! :debile2:

Something Soviet VU will take full advantage when ever possible.LoL

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Air Pressure and Temperature didn´t change within hours that much that this Changes influence outer ballistics that much. (If Boresighting with "Fleet Method" you shouldn´t care about this anyway. Sorry couldn´t resist)

The Wind is the Point.

Is there a Chance to indicate a Change of Direction or Strenght?

Wind makes Noise, Wind moves Plants and Wind takes Sand with it.

So is that visible/hearable ?

A little Inspiration:

This is not true, Air pressure and Temperature you need to care about. Air density affects accuracy. Standard air temperature is 59 degrees Fahrenheit and barometric pressure is 29.92 inches of mercury. As air pressure increases, air density generally increases. This slows rounds, which may cause them to strike low on the target. Firing when air density is less than average has the opposite effect. The tank’s computer compensates for this effect, using values input into the system. Recommended standard inputs for major geographical areas, by seasons, should be used whenever current information is not available. Always use the current, local barometric pressure and temperature, if it is available. Temperature should be updated whenever it deviates more than 10 degrees Fahrenheit from the indexed value; barometric pressure should be updated whenever it deviates more than one inch of mercury from the indexed value.

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Will it be possible for cross winds to be different at different points on the map? For example little crosswind at the base of a wooded hill, but much crosswind in a wide open plain?

We considered that option, but decided against it.

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The tank’s computer compensates for this effect, using values input into the system.

So there is really no point in modeling it in game? I am sooooo pleased to hear this, otherwise it would take me 30min to fire each round. :redface:

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Well now I never thought the day would come where I would actually play a simulator where I would have to think about barometric pressure in terms of inches in mercury, when I learned mm of Hg in chemistry I thought it would simply just stick in the back of my head forever and I would have no further use for it.

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This is not true, Air pressure and Temperature you need to care about. Air density affects accuracy. Standard air temperature is 59 degrees Fahrenheit and barometric pressure is 29.92 inches of mercury. As air pressure increases, air density generally increases. This slows rounds, which may cause them to strike low on the target. Firing when air density is less than average has the opposite effect. The tank’s computer compensates for this effect, using values input into the system. Recommended standard inputs for major geographical areas, by seasons, should be used whenever current information is not available. Always use the current, local barometric pressure and temperature, if it is available. Temperature should be updated whenever it deviates more than 10 degrees Fahrenheit from the indexed value; barometric pressure should be updated whenever it deviates more than one inch of mercury from the indexed value.

Did I say "Didn´t change within hours" ?

Yes I did and it would not change within hours, so for real Life you´r right but we speak about a SB Sce. that take 120 ~ 180 Minutes.

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Air Pressure and Temperature didn´t change within hours that much that this Changes influence outer ballistics that much. (If Boresighting with "Fleet Method" you shouldn´t care about this anyway. Sorry couldn´t resist)

What's the fleet method, and why would it affect ones attitude towards air pressure and temperature?

On a side note, I remember playing with the A5 ballistic computer to see how big an impact altitude (ie: air pressure) and temperature had on superelevation. It's been a few years now, but I seem to remember that the margin of error is quite considerable wrt those factors...

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