Challenger 2 a suitable stand-in for Challenger 1?

[Grenny]

I felt that the German inventory in SB is complete in that there is a contemporary/frontline MBT, IFV, and AT for the 1985 period (Companion popped my bubble on that though) available to the designer. They need not be playable. For me, any vehicle beyond the Abrams and Bradley series that is made playable is pure bonus.

Well in the that respect the russian side is complete also: BMP-1, BMP-2, BRDM, MTLB and so on...

[lavictoireestlavie]

Wait at least 2 years for a Leclerc !!!???

This compilation pretty much summarizes how us Leclerc fans feel about it:

[Hedgehog]

Wait at least 2 years for a Leclerc !!!???

This compilation pretty much summarizes how us Leclerc fans feel about it:

Yeah, next update.

Leclerc & Marder Fans: http://nooooooooooooooo.com/

[Scrapper_511]

The Redcoats are here! New pics up.

[DarkLabor]

Wait at least 2 years for a Leclerc !!!???

This compilation pretty much summarizes how us Leclerc fans feel about it:

Yeah, next update.

Leclerc & Marder Fans: http://nooooooooooooooo.com/

Easy, easy on noooooooooooo!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1L1lj3XuK8

[lavictoireestlavie]

Easy, easy on noooooooooooo!

You are one of us , you know you want it too :biggrin:

[Scrapper_511]

Not that I wouldn't welcome the T-64 and stock M2 Bradley, but the addition of the T-90 and BMP-3 just blew away all my 1985 envy.

[Scrapper_511]

Oh man, the more background research I do, the more frustrated I get trying to put together a 1980's Cold War scen pitting frontline NATO and WP units. Pushing the timeline to 2000 would then put an imaginary Soviet Union at an unfair disadvantage due to lack of BMP3 and T90. :decu:

Glad to hear original TOWs will be available, but I wonder if there is a way I can handicap the CR2 and ODS Bradley to suit my needs. Will tinker more with editor...

Hahah! Thank you eSim!!!! Thank you very much for these new vehicles!!! They look great!!!

Thanks yet again, for the T-64!!! :thumbup:

Edited June 25, 2013 by Scrapper_511

[Panzer_Leader]

With the increased focus on British equipment in v3.0 I’ve been experimenting with the CR2 as a CR1 stand-in by replacing the default L27 CHARM 3 ammunition with the earlier L23A1 CHARM -- with its 360mm of penetration against RHAe (!) -- instead. A couple of questions for people on the forum who know more about Challenger variants than me:

• To what extent was the CR1 commander’s independent periscope linked to the fire control system to provide a hunter-killer capability like the CR2?
  
• How much extra armour protection does the CR2 offer over and above the uparmoured CR1 used during Desert Sabre in 1991 (appliqué reactive armour front hull and appliqué passive armour front skirts)? Was the CR1 similar in terms of overall protection or is the CR2 in a different league?
  

I’m playing around with some British combat team variations in anticipation of having the Warrior and Scimitar join the sim soon and giving some thought to another late-Cold War scenario featuring BAOR on the updated Hannover-Weserbergland map also coming with v3.0: “Hullo T-64B, meet L23A1 CHARM. Uh oh!”.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Panzer_Leader
Corrected ammunition designation and penetration.

[Grenny]

Well in the last weeks I considered making a few scenarios using the Salisbury plains map. So the CR2 Warriotrs and Scimitars could get a good ride in SB.

But the backroundstory gives me a headacke. What do I use as OPFOR??

I mean, who would want to invade britain in the 1st place? Their wine tastes like the pipi of cow and their women all have big beards... ;-)

[Marko]

Well in the last weeks I considered making a few scenarios using the Salisbury plains map. So the CR2 Warriotrs and Scimitars could get a good ride in SB.

But the backroundstory gives me a headacke. What do I use as OPFOR??

I mean, who would want to invade britain in the 1st place? Their wine tastes like the pipi of cow and their women all have big beards... ;-)

Ok I will take the bite. LoL

What if the great European public,Realised that ( Real Ale and tea)

Were indeed the Elixir of life (why do you think are women have beards, That was ant just luck,that took breeding)

Any way, After hundreds of years of trying to replicate are national treasure (Real ale) and failing miserably a pan European force decides to invade.LoL

[Ssnake]

But the background story gives me a headache.

Skip it, then. Who cares what started the war, about what. There's "the enemy", go and defend your country. Leave the rest to the historians.

[jazjar]

Try this out for size as a background story: Imagine a dystopic near future where Britain becomes a fascist state. France, after being "Accidentally" bombed one too many times, declares war. Use Leopards for Leclercs or somehow pretend that Germany is allied and is landing first. Not trying to be too political or anything, just a suggestion.

[Hedgehog]

The "Insert radical extremist religious fanatics" have staged a military coup d'etat and The head of state has been shot as a corrupt heathen infidels, along with 98% of the previous government.

The new government is oppressing the worker classes, The kicker is the new government is ethnically cleansing "undesirables"

You know the whole history is repeating itself deal.

Don't worry about us, save yourselves!! We like hamming it up

[Panzer_Leader]

With the increased focus on British equipment in v3.0 I’ve been experimenting with the CR2 as a CR1 stand-in by replacing the default L27 CHARM 3 ammunition with the earlier L23A1 CHARM -- with its 360mm of penetration against RHAe (!) -- instead. A couple of questions for people on the forum who know more about Challenger variants than me:

• To what extent was the CR1 commander’s independent periscope linked to the fire control system to provide a hunter-killer capability like the CR2?

For those interested in CR2 as a CR1 stand-in I thought I'd answer my own question above. I just received my copy of Tankograd Publishing's 'Challenger 1 Main Battle Tank' and in it it states the commander's periscope No. 37 Mk 4 has "x10 and x1 magnification... [and] is used for observation, laying the armament and firing it." Although I don't know how the FCS works on CR1, I know the commander's Sagem VS 580-10 periscope on CR2 has x10.5 and x3.2 magnification so I feel comfortable they're close enough for CR2 to be a decent substitute on that front, especially if you use the L23A1 CHARM ammunition. Am I obsessive? It hasn't been diagnosed, but quite possibly...

Edited August 23, 2013 by Panzer_Leader
Corrected typo

[Companion]

Well in the last weeks I considered making a few scenarios using the Salisbury plains map. So the CR2 Warriotrs and Scimitars could get a good ride in SB.

But the backroundstory gives me a headacke. What do I use as OPFOR??

I mean, who would want to invade britain in the 1st place? Their wine tastes like the pipi of cow and their women all have big beards... ;-)

How about this:

In an imaginary world, one of God's angels did a sloppy job and Hitler was born quite later than original schedule; in modern times. So there never was WW2, this IS the WW2.

Of course our angelic culprit is having a hell of a time with our resident devils

So the WW2 is raging with modern weaponry and Bam! Operation Seelowe.

Thanks to brilliant British MoD, its navy is not what it used to be and Seelowe succeeds.

Now [insert one famous British unit here] faces some evil panzer divisions on the plain.

Advantage over using T-XX OPFOR is that it can be made into H2H or Two seperate SP Scenarios (one for each side).

[Hedgehog]

Although I don't know how the FCS works on CR1.

It shares the same IFCS system as the Chieftain, which from what I have read, is similar to the ASLAV 25 & Leo AS1 in concept of operation:

laze, track, press a button, solution is given, manual correction, BANG!

The person(s) to ask are Messrs. CR2 Commander (Who is deployed to Canada till October, explaining how when you press the button marked "Power" the radio will stop working. And how you need to use this feature to stop the bloody thing from draining the vehicle batteries. Squaddies, with the best will in the world, do tend to be simple creatures ) & IrishHussar (Who is somewhere doing something.)

Am I obsessive? It hasn't been diagnosed, but quite possibly...

Do you want the long or the short answer? :biggrin:

[Panzer_Leader]

Do you want the long or the short answer? :biggrin:

Actually, I don't think an answer's required

[Gibsonm]

IIRC approx 75% of the components were changed on Challenger 1 [basically the Chieftain / Shir 2] in order to create Challenger 2. With only around 5% of Challenger 2 parts useable on Challenger 1.

Indeed there was discussion at the time as to whether it should actually have a new name entirely rather than "2" (implying it was pretty much the same as "1").

So I think there might be a bit more involved is using one as a proxy for the other.

[hoggydog]

So theoretically, If a SB playable model of the Chieftan was produced, it should be a similar beast operationally to a CR1 model?