BadgerDog Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hmm, initial glance, I'd say medium to low performance at shadow mapping level 2 or 3http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/showthread.php?t=19357Thanks... that's unfortunate.. was hoping for better ...Regards,Doug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrapper_511 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Thanks for the revalation Dejawolf. :thumbup: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Thanks... that's unfortunate.. was hoping for better ...Regards, Doug Well I think its probably going to be "Average" for those without Hard core Flight simming PCs. At least shadows will "Work". The top grade mentioned in the tests is Dark's Uber black slab of obsidian (Space Odessy:2001) PC that is replaced regularly But then Dark is one of those "PC master race" Gamers. (See the "escapist" magazine, Zero Punctuation.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSmoke Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I don't agree here. It just happens that among our beta testers ATi cards are older models. If we had tested a Radeon HD 7970, for example, I'm confident that the results would be similar to those of the GeForce GTX 780 (maybe not quite, but close enough).Thanks for the response. I didn't mean to imply that SB wouldn't run well on a newer ATI card - just that it doesn't look like it will run well on mine being it is somewhat similar to the ones tested. I spend most of my time in the gunners seat with thermals so hopefully it will be acceptable with some details turned off. At some point I'll be getting a new PC so eventually it will run well with all details on for me. Thanks again for your response and also for your part in developing an amazing sim. I really can't say enough good things about SB! If I only had more time to play it. I still haven't played a multi-player game since the original SB... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt DeFault Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 ...it's a bit like looking at a bowl of spaghetti and attempting to discern every single strand of spaghetti in their entire length, where every single spaghetti need to lie exactly like it did before. Best analogy I've heard in a while. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted July 5, 2013 Members Share Posted July 5, 2013 I'm not exactly sure how to read those results. Was the Ati Radeon 5970 bottlenecked by the processor in that comparison or is the GPU really handling the new version that bad?The benchmark was made so that a CPU bottleneck will not occur - at least not because there are a lot of combatants interacting with each other (it also doesn't help with reliable reproduction of test results). I also wouldn't say that the not so well performing graphic cards are "bad". We basically had to decide about not releasing anything, not releasing it with the new engine, or to release it with the new engine but to make the GPU load adjustable. In the end, we felt that the last option would offer the best tradeoff.If we would have had the liberty to start from scratch, I'm sure we would see different results. But we have to replace crucial code elements while keeping the software still functional, and that invokes a period where things work, just not extremely efficient. For us a few areas are still ahead that need attention (e.g. the terrain engine) but RIGHT NOW this is what we have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrapper_511 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Ssnake, would this be Level-2 shadow? : Please say "yes". I could totally live with it and so can my hardware. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted July 7, 2013 Members Share Posted July 7, 2013 I have uploaded six images to the Gallery that show the different stages of shadow mapping (they are on the last page). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flanker15 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 2 looks good enough to me!Can we have an option for shadows on infantry too pretty please :biggrin: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrapper_511 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Thank you for those Ssnake.As far as I can tell, the intensity (and not just detail) of the shadow increases with each level, not the resolution as I had been assuming (what I thought was pixilation was probably the shadow affected by ripples in the terrain).On another note, when my rig (Athlon X2 3.0GHz, GeForce 9600GT) slows down when there is heavy smoke from artillery, would you be able to say whether it's the CPU or the GPU that is lacking? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flanker15 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Both but the GPU would be the thing that causes smoke slow down. Upgrading it would then make your system CPU bottlenecked though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybird03 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 2 looks good enough to me! My thoughts exactly. I prefer the milder, softer shadow image to the "pitchblack" sharp-contrasting level 5. I probably would set Lev 2 even if I had a super-system, capable to run the sim at max details with 200 frames. Contrast between surfaces differently exposed to light, some being darker, some brighter often get messed up in sims, I think, with making the differences sometimes hilariously intense. Then you have a house and the one side faces the sun and there is white-blinding bloom all over, and the side of it, at a 90° angle, already looks like formed by gold and copper, and the backside looks like a snapshot at night. Shadows cast on the ground or walls thus also are often exaggerated in contrast and darkness. Dark grey and black should be forbidden to be used in painting shadows. I assume that what such colour calculations do not take into account is that the human brain adapts to varying light conditions, subjectively altering the viewing impression - we are less aware of objective changes in colours and brightness levels over the cause of a day (every photographer knows that). HDR seems to intend to tackle this problem - bu ti it often makes things even worse, and even more brilliant in excessive contrasting. Level 2 is good enough for me, system resources for higher shadow levels I would save for different calculations in the sim. I always liked SBP for its realistic colour palette and milder, pastel-like and more natural colours. It seems they managed to stick to this quality with the new graphics engine. I'm thankful for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invader ZIM Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I agree with skybird, after looking at the screenshots, I'm going to be really happy with Shadows "2" or maybe even "3" if I have more headspace in my system. I don't see the need yet to go to level "5" on the shadows personally, but everyone mileage will vary of course.Looking great by the way, even with self shadowing and Level 2 shadows. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Hi all, I haven't posted anything for a while but just wanted to say that version 3.0 is looking fantastic! Well done eSim, I can't wait for it's release! I'm pleased to see that, amongst all the new features, shadows will now be present. I have a question though - in the screenshots released so far it appears the shadows only affect vehicles and/or buildings in the immediate vicinity of the camera, is that the case? For me, shadows help 'ground' vehicles viewed at a distance, especially those on hillsides or on featureless terrain. Sometimes they appear to be floating and its hard to gauge their precise location. Looking through the images (with some examples linked below), I hope we can put even basic shadows on more distant objects or will that severely impact performance? Cheers! Q http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/sbgallery/main.php?g2_itemId=18404&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/sbgallery/main.php?g2_itemId=18167&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/sbgallery/main.php?g2_itemId=18091&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/sbgallery/main.php?g2_itemId=17383&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Hi all, I haven't posted anything for a while but just wanted to say that version 3.0 is looking fantastic! Well done eSim, I can't wait for it's release! I'm pleased to see that, amongst all the new features, shadows will now be present. I have a question though - in the screenshots released so far it appears the shadows only affect vehicles and/or buildings in the immediate vicinity of the camera, is that the case? For me, shadows help 'ground' vehicles viewed at a distance, especially those on hillsides or on featureless terrain. Sometimes they appear to be floating and its hard to gauge their precise location. Looking through the images (with some examples linked below), I hope we can put even basic shadows on more distant objects or will that severely impact performance? Cheers! Q it will severely impact performance and quality of the shadows. because of the way the ground shading algorithms were written in the past, Miro was unable to enable cascading shadows for the terrain. this is an algorithm that instead of rendering the shadow as a single large, image, instead creates higher resolution shadow maps close to the viewer, with decreasing shadow map resolution over distance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rump Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Is it an idea to include the Windows Experience Index of the machines used in the performance tests? In that way people can easily compare their systems with the tests. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMiner Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 OK, here's what's most likely a dumb question....After looking through this whole thread I still can't figure out where the 3.0 spec sheet is. Can someone point me to the info that Ssnake has been updating regarding this subject? Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt DeFault Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 It's here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMiner Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Thanks Lt.!Dang, it looks like I'll have to upgrade my old GeForce GTS 450 w/1gb! My i7 950 3.07GHz and 12Gb RAM should be OK though. So, video card shopping I go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure Lion Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Woot! Definitely time to get a new vid card! You'll love the upgrade for sure! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadVuk Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Now that we saw how shadows look with details set to 2 and with details set to 5 I think ill stick to 2, that should be more then enough for smooth fps, even on my aging CPU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 it will severely impact performance and quality of the shadows. because of the way the ground shading algorithms were written in the past, Miro was unable to enable cascading shadows for the terrain. this is an algorithm that instead of rendering the shadow as a single large, image, instead creates higher resolution shadow maps close to the viewer, with decreasing shadow map resolution over distance. Thanks for the reply Dejawolf. I was just thinking (always a dangerous thing to do I know ), but if shadows won't be visible on vehicles at a physical distance, will they be visible when viewing objects through the gunner's sight or binoculars as they will be 'closer' to the viewer? You mentioned the algorithm 'creates higher resolution shadow maps close to the viewer', so I hope my question above makes sense, I'm not sure of the tech-terminology here. :redface: Thanks, Q 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Thanks for the reply Dejawolf. I was just thinking (always a dangerous thing to do I know ), but if shadows won't be visible on vehicles at a physical distance, will they be visible when viewing objects through the gunner's sight or binoculars as they will be 'closer' to the viewer?You mentioned the algorithm 'creates higher resolution shadow maps close to the viewer', so I hope my question above makes sense, I'm not sure of the tech-terminology here. :redface: Thanks, Q currently in SB the shadow is rendered only once, at a single resolution, and it's therefore extremely range-limited and pixelated. so there won't be shadows in gunners or binoculars. once the whole ground rendering code is rewritten, it will enable Miro to increase the range that shadows are visible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 currently in SB the shadow is rendered only once, at a single resolution, and it's therefore extremely range-limited and pixelated. so there won't be shadows in gunners or binoculars.once the whole ground rendering code is rewritten, it will enable Miro to increase the range that shadows are visible.Thanks for the explanation Dejawolf. :thumbup: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 OK, here's what's most likely a dumb question....After looking through this whole thread I still can't figure out where the 3.0 spec sheet is. Can someone point me to the info that Ssnake has been updating regarding this subject? ThanksIt's here.It's not a spec sheet. How can they possibly release that information when 3.0 is not finished yet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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