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Hedgehog

ZSU-23-4 Shilka, SPAAG tactical employment

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ZSU-23-4 Shilka, SPAAG tactical employment

Summary:

Deployed at regimental level AA company:

1 x Platoon of 4 ZSU-23-4 guns.

1 x platoon of SA-9 SAMs on BRDM-2 chassis

1 x HQ of BTR command posts.

(Late 90s onwards, add 1 x platoon of Igla SAMs in APCs IFVs etc.)

Attacking:

Guns deployed 1 section (2 x ZSU) per attacking battalion 500m behind leading battalion elements.

Defensive:

Again 2 guns per battalion, 1000m behind 1st defensive positions.

Can move forward of lead defensive positions to ambush attacking aircraft at CO's discretion.

Maximum effective range = 2500m.

Ammo belt configuration = 3 in 4 HE, 1 in 4 AP.

480 rounds per upper gun pair

510 per lower gun pair

Gun capability: AP/BZT = 20mm RHAe @ 1000m

(So don't try taking this thing on in a HUMVEE, It will turn you into Borscht :eek2: )

Upper & Lower Gun pair used AA role.

1 gun pair in Ground Self Defence. (Not sure which)

6 fire modes:

1 Full aerial Target tracking with radar.

2 Aerial or ground target tracking with optics, and RPK is measuring range only

3 Predictive tracking with Radar.

4. Aerial target tracking with optics only

5. Ground target tracking with optics only

6. Emergency mode (full manual target tracking, sounds like fun.)

Anyway hope this has enlightened people to the fast fire fun this thing can dish out. (Panzer Leader will probably dig this the most :) )

A lot of this info is C & P from these documents:

:)

Tradoc Bulletin No. 4, January 1976:

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA392785

SAM SIM Site:

https://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/

SAM Sim PDFs.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/3fn5xnkz65g9f4f/SAMSim_docs_130212.rar

Sim HQ forum:

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/339/1/SAM_Simulator

Edited by Hedgehog

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I have to say I'm impressed with the penetration at 1000m, it certainly deserves

respect if you're in something lightly armoured.

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With Apache Longbow, just pop the radar mast up, detect ALL the attacking vehicles in the formation, cross reference with RFI to see which ones are hostile, and then take out the ZSUs, and leave the tanks defenseless.

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With Apache Longbow, just pop the radar mast up, detect ALL the attacking vehicles in the formation, cross reference with RFI to see which ones are hostile, and then take out the ZSUs, and leave the tanks defenseless.

Unless of course the formation has radar detection AFV's in the mix, then a game changer and the effects of the AH-64Dis some what minor irritant to be dealt with.

Most armies have such AFV's and will deploy them. :c:

Painting yourself in today's warfare is not a good idea.:confused::confused:

Edited by 12Alfa

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Unless of course the formation has anti-radar detection AFV's in the mix, then a game changer and the effects of the AH-64Dis some what minor irritant to be dealt with.

Most armies have such AFV's and will deploy them. :c:

Painting yourself in today's warfare is not a good idea.:confused::confused:

Guess it would depend to a large extent as to who was quicker on the trigger. But if you are the 'paintee' , by the time you have sussed that you are being painted and worked out where from, it may be too late - particularly if the engagement range is short and missile has active homing (fire and forget) so the launcher doesn't have to remain on the air to guide the missile to its target.

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Guess it would depend to a large extent as to who was quicker on the trigger. But if you are the 'paintee' , by the time you have sussed that you are being painted and worked out where from, it may be too late - particularly if the engagement range is short and missile has active homing (fire and forget) so the launcher doesn't have to remain on the air to guide the missile to its target.

Some systems do not require you finger to be on a trigger. If the system is in auto mode it will trigger a launch(s).

When dealing with systems that are loaded out with modern electronics it's best to employ wpn systems that don't emit any radiation in the EM relm. Best to stay in the visual or IR for detecting to remain hidden.

The AH-64 works due to the environment they operate, mostly as we have seen in areas that are not employing high tech, I would believe, as others, that in a environment with a army with developed EW capabilities (Russia,China etc) they would need a lot of help to get close enought to their targets to operate (read air dominance).

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What is an "anti radar detection AFV"? The AH-64 was designed to operate in a high threat environment, and Im not sure what black magic would render them a minor irritant.

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What is an "anti radar detection AFV"? The AH-64 was designed to operate in a high threat environment, and Im not sure what black magic would render them a minor irritant.

Ok fixes that. Should have read radar detection.

Yes we all know how well the track record is of them operating in a high threat environment, wait they haven't, unless you count the last two deployments in the mid-east.

They just have not come under any real threat yet.

The black magic would be anti-radar wpnd's from ground based AFV's, such as some armies have.:c:

Turn the radar on= detection+incomming wpn.:c:

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Turn the radar on= detection+incomming wpn.:c:

You, guys seem to forget, in order to shoot your target, you first need to see/detect it, and if the enemy knows what they're doing, you won't see them until they are ready to knock you out of the sky.

Also Soviet Air Defense systems were designed to operate in a layered defensive belt system, the ZSU-23-4 and the SA 9 are the very short range systems, Specifically designed to engage pop up attack style helicopters, where they are visible for a short time only.

They will, if the situation permits, set up ambushes of helicopters using the Main body of the Regiment as a decoy.

The longer range SA 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, will at least contest anything above tree top within I think it is 20-50km from the launch site. (Visibility limitations of the Fire control radar and the curvature of the earth.)

But the most important thing to remember, is although you may have managed to achieve a lock on, a weapon may not always hit, and may not always kill.

And the enemy will be doing their utmost to kill you while you are trying to kill them.

Air Defense is very much like any other battle.

Although the New Hellfire F&F may seem like a magic bullet, if you have a ZSU firing at up arse due to superior positioning, a group of 23mm shells perforating your engines and gearbox is not going to help get that AGM off any quicker. (Which will in this example be as much use as a chocolate teapot.)

(And don't forget, if helos are operating at tree top level you can have 120mm AA guns firing at you that only need to get lucky once.)

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Detecting the target is the key.:luxhello:

I would also say, that I admire the AH-64, I felt more secure when flying in the desert when they were providing our escort.:luxhello:

What I was trying to say in my original post,was that when hunting targets using a active system is not the best way from a platform, either from the ground or in the air.:cool3:

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Thats why you have integrated air defence.

The Gepard crews I know told me that they for real would almost never use their search radar. Switching that one would make them a bullet magnet.

For detecting air threats they would use info from other stations and/or MK-I eyeball.

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Detecting the target is the key.:luxhello:

I would also say, that I admire the AH-64, I felt more secure when flying in the desert when they were providing our escort.:luxhello:

What I was trying to say in my original post,was that when hunting targets using a active system is not the best way from a platform, either from the ground or in the air.:cool3:

Thats why Search Radars have ranges in the 100s of km, and are usually located in the rear, protected by a longer range SAM and/or Fighters.

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