First Clash

[Brun]

Well just a pity you didn't actually ask someone on the Blue side.

If you had (ask anybody) they would have told you we were mounting at "best" a defence and at "worst" a delay. Lots of conversations about "falling back" to the Autobahn.

Indeed CO Blue stressed a couple of times, not going after Red because apparently that had been agreed beforehand between the two COs.

But don't let facts get in the way of a good bleat.

What He said.

The WP had about a 5 kilometer deep safe zone to operate from. The area was heavily wooded and hilly, and I expected WP to use it to sneak up and harass our tanks with AT soldiers. With the large amount of time left after initial contact, that's how I thought it would play out. To my surprise we faced a suicidal charge of enemy technical vehicles and BTR-80's. WP had a lot of terrain, and foot soldiers, and time to work with, and a safe zone operate in. Even without Artillery on both sides scouting, or harassment could have been carried out by WP. Perhaps WP "command personalities" overlooked this, and also to assume what I am "satisfied" with.

[12Alfa]

Maybe both sides overestimated each other

but I think once our BTR's started running into leopards the writing was on the wall.

Maybe some overall guidance on how we call a mission is in order especially as force preservation might be important.

This campaign has great potential and I for one am looking forward to it continuing.

I am in the process after talking to both sides on a few SOP's, the calling of a mission is just one. I should have these ready by wed for the CO's to ponder and a final by the next engagement.

[Tjay]

Well just a pity you didn't actually ask someone on the Blue side.

If you had (ask anybody) they would have told you we were mounting at "best" a defence and at "worst" a delay. Lots of conversations about "falling back" to the Autobahn.

Indeed CO Blue stressed a couple of times, not going after Red because apparently that had been agreed beforehand between the two COs.

But don't let facts get in the way of a good bleat.

So sad that you still seem incapable of making a post that doesn't contain some a bitchy, condescending, snide remark. Promotional prospects not looking too good?

[Gibsonm]

So sad that you still seem incapable of making a post that doesn't contain some a bitchy, condescending, snide remark. Promotional prospects not looking too good?

As opposed to:

What we did know (through careful study of the eny's command personalities) is that in this scenario the Blue side was never going to be satisfied with just stopping Red in its tracks - but was going to come out of its defensive posture and mount a full-on counterattack.

You didn't "know" this at all or perhaps the "careful study" wasn't?

In hindsight, I shouldn't have bothered taking you off my ignore list. This has now been rectified.

[12Alfa]

On the afternoon 2nd of November, they were at war. It had begun with widespread air attacks followed by the landing of airborne troops in the rear, disruptive sabotage and the crossing of the boarder on the night of the 29th by strong Warsaw Pact forces. So far the 4CMBG lay relatively undisturbed despite the almost ceaseless air warfare, the heavy rumble of battle away to the east, and the tensions induced by anticipation, by occasional bombing and rumors of spies and saboteurs at large amid the towns, villages and woods where the brigade group lay hidden in wide dispersion ... for fear of nuclear attack.

After moving into Sandweier for orders the CO along with two tank troops from 8Canadian Hussars, RCHA,2RCR, and other elements moved into their assigned battle positions. This was done for the most part without any problems, but with any movement there were a few issues. One of the troops Leopards ran into the center concrete medium on the main route leading north from Sandweier, and resulted in a crewmember injured, the CO sent the medics to the Leopard, but this crew did not make its battle position.

Edited November 11, 2013 by 12Alfa

[12Alfa]

No sooner than the Combat team drove into their assigned areas the enemy showed among fleeing civilians from the war. At first there was panic over the air, however the CO found the information he needed and issues quick orders to reposition his Leopards on south eastern side of the AO. Meanwhile on the northern side a lone vehicle attempted to run the battle position, almost catching the fire team of Leopards off guard. The fire team commander Tango 11 not knowing of the kill from his wingman 11B, moves to search, for what he though was a hole in his battle position, which the enemy had gone through. The fog of war had set upon the area. Another high speed run at Tango 12B had the same result, the Canadians being confident after winning CAT in the previous years.

[12Alfa]

A few BTR-80’s units from the 302th MRR moved into the AO, and were tracked down and stopped. They had entered the rear of the battle position, just drove straight through, a sharp 12B crew swung their L7 around at max turn rate, and sent the dart into the amour at nearly the speed of sound. The wingman 12A followed with another sabot. The battle position was on fire with gunfire and sabots.

Edited November 11, 2013 by 12Alfa

[12Alfa]

The combat team was shocked at the rapid advance into their AO, Intel was not up to the standard they had been led to believe. As the troops scanned their arcs a sudden realization set in, they were at war, and the enemy was now hunting them, no longer pursuing the yanks from the VII (US) Corps front border. The Guards commander had another enemy to fight, he had lost the Americans to another day, but the Canadians now were his concern. If they held, he would be delayed, and his commander would not take this kindly.

To be continued.........

[Assassin 7]

A few BTR-80’s units from the 302th MRR moved into the AO, and were tracked down and stopped. They had entered the rear of the battle position, just drove straight through, a sharp 12B crew swung their L7 around at max turn rate, and sent the dart into the amour at nearly the speed of sound. The wingman 12A followed with another sabot. The battle position was on fire with gunfire and sabots.

Gunner Sabot BTR, Identified, Fire Fire HEAT, On the way, Boom, Target cease fire. I wonder who shot those. LOL

[Gibsonm]

It might be the prehistoric version of IE here at work but all of those screenshots to me anyway appear cropped (with all the useful stuff removed)?

[Assassin 7]

Pretty much here is how it went in the center.

[12Alfa]

It might be the prehistoric version of IE here at work but all of those screenshots to me anyway appear cropped (with all the useful stuff removed)?

I'll repost:c::c:

[Gibsonm]

I'll repost:c::c:

No, I wouldn't bother.

Seems OK with Safari, and a later copy of IE, at home.

[Lt DeFault]

Nice screens. Man, the new engine looks sweet!

[hoggydog]

Yeah, some good target tracking and engagement from Blue there.

Never underestimate the Leo AS1

a lesson I keep forgetting.

at one point I had the arse end of one of Assasins Leos in the sights of an AT4 but he was back behind tree cover before I had a chance to engage.

ah well next time

[Tacom]

When is next mission?

[Gibsonm]

Yeah, some good target tracking and engagement from Blue there.

Never underestimate the Leo AS1

a lesson I keep forgetting.

at one point I had the arse end of one of Assasins Leos in the sights of an AT4 but he was back behind tree cover before I had a chance to engage.

ah well next time

Well I'm not complaining, but I had thought that would be the WP game plan post initial contact.

Probe with empty APCs, infiltrate, stalk and close assault the tanks with dismounted infantry.

The ground provided quite a few dismounted approaches and concealment.

But as you say perhaps next time …

[Tjay]

In hindsight, I shouldn't have bothered taking you off my ignore list. This has now been rectified.

Delighted. :luxhello:

[Hedgehog]

Urgh, I don't know what the hell was going on with the artillery.

Call for fire.

Units on a "Fire at will" order

Placed in cover with a clear LOS to the sky to the front - 500 m ish

Strictly should be 1500m but then I'd be in the open, in full view.....

Hmm.

I was looking forward to dumping on the Canuks from a very great height.

[Tjay]

The WP had about a 5 kilometer deep safe zone to operate from. The area was heavily wooded and hilly, and I expected WP to use it to sneak up and harass our tanks with AT soldiers. With the large amount of time left after initial contact, that's how I thought it would play out. To my surprise we faced a suicidal charge of enemy technical vehicles and BTR-80's. WP had a lot of terrain, and foot soldiers, and time to work with, and a safe zone operate in. Even without Artillery on both sides scouting, or harassment could have been carried out by WP. Perhaps WP "command personalities" overlooked this, and also to assume what I am "satisfied" with.

Well, Brun, as I tried to make clear in my original post, I felt (as i.c ATGM infantry assets) that we could have done better than we did. Tank Hunter (who had the C.O job dumped on him at very short notice when Crusty was unable to connect to the server) already knows that, and I'm sure doesn't mind me expressing that opinion here in a spirit of openness.

Analysis of the enemy commander is a military tradition that goes back to the dark ages, and sometimes that analysis is in error, or the enemy commander does something unexpected. No offense was intended.

[Gibsonm]

Urgh, I don't know what the hell was going on with the artillery.

Call for fire.

Units on a "Fire at will" order

Placed in cover with a clear LOS to the sky to the front - 500 m ish

Strictly should be 1500m but then I'd be in the open, in full view.....

Hmm.

I was looking forward to dumping on the Canuks from a very great height.

Don't worry, same thing happened to the Canuks too.

Pretty sure its because they were on different sides. The Canadians had:

Canadian Tanks

Canadian Artillery

Canadian Infantry

Canadian HQ units

None of which could "talk" to each other.

So targets identified on the map by the tanks weren't visible to the Infantry, etc.

Hence the AAR review point of consolidating all of the Canadian forces into one "Blue" side and similarly all the WP units into one "Red" side (pretty sure there was red and red artillery as discrete "sides").

[Hedgehog]

Don't worry, same thing happened to the Canuks too.

Pretty sure its because they were on different sides. The Canadians had:

Canadian Tanks

Canadian Artillery

Canadian Infantry

Canadian HQ units

None of which could "talk" to each other.

So targets identified on the map by the tanks weren't visible to the Infantry, etc.

Hence the AAR review point of consolidating all of the Canadian forces into one "Blue" side and similarly all the WP units into one "Red" side (pretty sure there was red and red artillery as discrete "sides").

Hmm, I'm not so sure.

the Artillery worked in Grenny's campaign/LNOT, we had:

'murican's = Green

Germans = Blue

Artillery = Pink

Artillery worked in that one.

I hazard a guess it was because they couldn't draw a trajectory to where they were supposed to be shooting, thought I had but probably not.

SPGS look like they use a "Semi indirect" (Along then down) method, (HE shells = no fins), harder to site.

Anyway I'll put them in a more suitable area next time, and borrow a BTR as a tree felling device.

Mortars are easier to use since they throw their rounds up then over, just need a clear LOS to the sky.

I have to say I am a little disappointed about all this animosity that seems to have sprung up, around CGM1SGB's first official outing. I do hope it clears as the campaign progresses and everyone finds their feet.

(I know I'm not really a saint in this regard, I've had a private vent with SVU/UKA)

However as the first mission, it didn't really tell a story:

"Soviet Recon/pursuit find Canadian tanks, call up HQ"

Mission over.

If it had been:

"Soviet Recon/Pursuit find Canadian tanks, Call in contacts, Soviet HQ immediately dispatches follow up forces."

It would have had more of a story to it.

As it was the only thing the Soviets could've done is call for help and hold the position against counter attacks.

Which would have been infantry hunting tanks with RPGs.

Which can be fun or really annoying.

I think the 20 AFV limit per mission will be the deciding factor in this campaign.

[Tjay]

I have to say I am a little disappointed about all this animosity that seems to have sprung up, around CGM1SGB's first official outing. I do hope it clears as the campaign progresses and everyone finds their feet.

+ 1. As you will see above, my original post regarding the mission was not intended a a 'bleat', nor to impunge the reputation of our respected enemies. No animosity or complaints here. Other than the WP forces being issued with brightly painted 1970-era pickup trucks as a stand in for... what? But that's an entirely separate issue...

[Guest Killjoy]

Other than the WP forces being issued with brightly painted 1970-era pickup trucks as a stand in for... what? But that's an entirely separate issue...

Stand in for GAZ.

[Kingtiger]

Well I would like to thank you all. Without these "arguments" I would never have found out about the word Bleat. Thank you, I now have a new word to use.

:c:

Oh btw, I have ordered the book in hardcover, looking forward to read it!