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What time will be best for you to attend 1st Clash?  

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  1. 1. What time will be best for you to attend 1st Clash?



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Dukes pictorial AAR from mission two.

Draw your own conclusions.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3867753/PzBtl911_v_AAR_SBPro_PE_First_#Post3867753

Clearly shows the TOW TIS being used to identify targets at long range and presumably report them to Blue C.O. Contrary to what has been written above.

However, I appreciate that this thread is not the right place for requests for info on the use of various weapons, in view of the ongoing campaign. So I will follow KT 'outa here'. Your place or mine? :clin:

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Same here big family holiday weekend no go for NATO. Most NATO members are from non-Thanksgiving Nations so perhaps a training-briefing during what would be regular campaign time on Sat? If WP chooses their ground and C/C gets Me the scenario to plan by say Thursday, it will be good to go.

Right so I guess its now Thursday back there, since its Thursday here. :)

Did anything arrive?

Just asking so I know whether to get up at 0500 on Sunday morning (to attend the "regular campaign time on Sat" or not). :)

Looks like the week after is now out for me though.

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You talk of mass assault with numbers, however last mission when you had the tank advantage vs M113's, your armour were sent piece meal.
In real life the attacking Soviets are in column formation till the CO decides he needs his forces in line (battle ready), at this point they leave their column formations and at a certain point on the ground the move into line formations.

Given that not all units can occupy the same piece of ground in the column, and even the line formations, they are separated by space and time. If i recall some 30-60mins. More for larger formations. So yes they would be in waves due to a time issue. They as all armies put spacing between units traveling down route as not to congest and cause issues (much like SB).

So where are they then? If the 20 vehicles at the front are the tip of this then by that measure Red should have between 2-4 20 vehicle TFs with 1 battery of artillery each by the end of the recon mission, on top of the lead element. Instead they are at the local gasthaus. Even 1 extra TF would

1. Ensure that there is still action when the lead element gets smashed due to the defender's advantages in quality, information and the natural advantages afforded to a defender (thus allowing for enough combat power two 2 hour missions).

2. Provide a semi-reasonable representation.

As it is there is a good chance that you will loose upwards of a company probing the defense/ascertaining where the enemy line is. After which you have nothing with which to concentrate. Even if you do concentrate what then? You concentrate on 1 of 3k while facing an enemy which can engage at nearly 4k ranges.

But, its your thing, you will do what you will.

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:wink2:That mission was as I has stated many times, and was posted in the forum for all to read, was a recon/supply phase.

If you chose to commit your tanks in a recon mission then with out knowing (why we do recon) where the enemy is, or likely to be, then a CO will face what he does not know, and most likely from where he does not.

You could have as 1 option, save your tanks (given you only have 300+), for the route in the north that the 1 BRDM took, and went well past the AB as a group (coy) to attack, or what ever.

Combat phase would have seen more combat power (2X tank coys I think) push through where the tanks in the recon got to.

Thous, red could have had tanks in coy+ strength past the autobahn for the 3rd turn recon phase to chose from and use.

There were other options available, but hind-site is 20/20:c:.

Both sides have learned some valuable lessons for the future missions:luxhello:, whether those lesson can be put into a plan is yet to be determined.:confused:

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Ran out of arty ammunition because there were no resupply vehicles on red.

None were requested by the Red CO, Blue CO had placed a request for his, along with medics, recovery, etc. I asked both CO's to tell me what they wanted for both phase's, as I will do in each and every mission, as posted in the ruels.

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Right so I guess its now Thursday back there, since its Thursday here. :)

Did anything arrive?

Just asking so I know whether to get up at 0500 on Sunday morning (to attend the "regular campaign time on Sat" or not). :)

Looks like the week after is now out for me though.

Nothing Yet. If none by this time tomorrow then Sat is off. I'll let NATO know when I get the terrain, then take it from there.

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OK, and you mentioned the specifically to the Red CO, that he didn't have any resupply vehicles for his arty?

I think (and certainly I wasn't there) he meant that Blue asked, Red didn't.

I gather the process is that the CO taylors his force selection to what he wants to do.

I don't think 12Alfa provides a "safety net" with prompts.

If the CO (Blue or Red) doesn't ask, he doesn't get.

Again, that is just my reading of it.

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Spotting one tank at 4000meters is not contrary to anything written above. Had TI not been available the TOW's would have had the same result.

Oh, so the technology is redundant and a waste of time then? I wonder how many on this forum would agree. Please note that I am not saying that it is an UNFAIR advantage in any way. It is clear that the Canadians had TIS TOWs at the time this engagement is supposed to take place.

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TI technology was not necessary for the outcome to be what it was in this particular battle. Also with TI not available in future battles all this is a mute point as far the campaign is concerned.

Perhaps WP would consider increasing their vehicle count to 40 on the C/P only, with no map updates? I have no problem with this. This would ultimately be 12Alfa's call but the offer is on the table.

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Perhaps WP would consider increasing their vehicle count to 40 on the C/P only, with no map updates? I have no problem with this. This would ultimately be 12Alfa's call but the offer is on the table.

Thank you for the offer. I'm sure 12A and whoever takes over as C.O Red will give it due consideration. :)

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I think (and certainly I wasn't there) he meant that Blue asked, Red didn't.

I gather the process is that the CO taylors his force selection to what he wants to do.

I don't think 12Alfa provides a "safety net" with prompts.

If the CO (Blue or Red) doesn't ask, he doesn't get.

Again, that is just my reading of it.

I had asked if these were given "automatically" as I recall. I had not placed them on the map under the assumption that they would be there and because I did not know what other "extras" (command assets, etc) would be implemented as there had been for the first mission.

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Can somebody please clarify who the new C/O for the red is going to be.

Sounds a bit like "Apocalypse Now" at the Do Lung bridge where Willard (Martin Sheen) is walking around asking the soldiers, while they are under fire, trying to find the CO:

Willard: Hey soldier, do you know who's in command here?

Soldier: Ain't you?

Edited by Gibsonm
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I hope I am not considered a "turncoat" for asking this question, but I would like to see this campaign run its full course. So, the question: what are the rules for changing sides in the event that one side significantly loses their initial number of members? I've got some experience with the T-72 and a few other Soviet vehicles thanks to RED TIDE and a number of Finnish-based scenarios. If the Soviet side in this campaign is running short of members, and if they can use me, and if NATO concurs, is a transfer allowed under the existing rules? If not, fine. If so, I'll be happy to go wherever I can be used.

That said, I'm away from tomorrow AM to Thursday evening, but I should be able to access this forum while away. Let's keep this campaign going. :thumbup:

Well, with no response from anyone, It looks like I'm staying with NATO.

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I think the reponse will probably come in the lead up to the "post Thanksgiving" mission(s).

This will give CO Red a chance to stabilise morale (or not) and ideally maintain the current enthusiasm / manning.

If however he faces mass defections or absenteeism, and the manning becomes critical, then I guess the call will go out to "re balance" the sides.

Certainly such a call would need to be made well before the next round of mission planning so key participants who may have helped devise the plan don't find themselves on the other side with CO NATO having to rapidly rewrite it.

From my POV, the offer I made in the PM sent at the start (post #8 refers) remains valid.

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OK, Mark. I'll see how this plays out. If I do move, of course nothing I've seen or heard on BLUE will get discussed by me. 12A's put so much work into this that I'll do what I ethically can to keep the campaign running. But, as you allude, the possible relocation of players will be up to 12A and the COs.

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Well officially SVU have withdrawn due to differences of opinion on how the direction

Of the campaign was going. Although individual members are free to continue if they wish

I also wish all who are still participating good luck with the campaign.

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