T-62 tank range bug?

[Zantar]

I just had a tank range session in the T-62 and there were two instances where my TC reported that I hit the target and then told me to re-engage. My understanding is that any hit to a vehicle and it is "dead" regardless of whether it would have been killed in real life. Both times this happened I was shooting at a Centurion. I looked at the AAR to see if these non-killing hits would show up but they did not. Very strange.

Has anyone else encountered this?

[Tacbat]

I've seen it before when you have HEAT loaded after engaging a PC and a tank shows up. Now, if you engage the tank, but miss just a bit, you might hit the tank with "splash fragments", which will get you the "Target!" indication by the TC. However, IIRC the fragments don't penetrate the tank far enough to trigger the "Kill when hit" function.

If you try shooting the targets with your coax, you might see the same thing.

[wolfstriked]

EDIT for being way off.

[kalash]

I have a question, how i can reload manualy the gun after shot, like t72 with 'v' , for seeing the impact, with autoreloading its impossible

[Zantar]

Unfortunately, you have no control over the loading of the gun in the T-62. It is a bit of an awkward beast to use. Because the gun immediately elevates to a set loading angle upon firing, the only way to observe the fall of your shot is to switch to low magnification with your N key immediately after pressing the trigger.

Everyone thought the T-72 was so primitive when it finally became crewable. The T-62 shows us how relatively advanced the T-72 really is.

[kalash]

strange, in another t62 tanksim i can load manualy after observation of the impact, i dont know if that this in reality. I must go read the t62 tank user guide...

[Jartsev]

strange, in another t62 tanksim i can load manualy after observation of the impact, i dont know if that this in reality. I must go read the t62 tank user guide...

Its something wrong with that "another t62 tanksim" In other words its not a gunner`s responsibility to issue orders for the loader. To observe point of impact you need to change magnification(N) or switch to "triplex"(F4).

[hoggydog]

afaik the process whereby the guns elevates after shooting is actually part of the case ejection process and is automatic whether a new round is loaded or not.

[Toyguy]

You can control the reload to some degree, with some advanced planning. By going to the TC position with F7 you can then double-tap the key for the ammo you want NEXT. You must still fire the round in the chamber, but the next round loaded will be the one the TC selected.

[Tacbat]

I don't think you can access the TC's spot in the tank range scenarios.

[Damian90]

Interesting thing is that later during T-62 modernization, they finally changed this strange solution that sight is slaved to the gun. So in modernized tanks, you can observe the target and projectile tracer when gun elevates for reloading process.

[hoggydog]

Yeah having the GPS not slaved to the main gun is a great leap forward in fire control.

shame the CR2 didn't think of that with its thermal sight.

[Hedgehog]

Think on the real vehicle the gun (& TIS) only lays onto the firing solution when the trigger is pulled, which is why it takes up to 2-3sec for the FCS to fire the gun, all other times the gun is slaved to the GPS viewing angle.

So its an elegant solution in the way that the TIS can see what the gun sees.

Whether the gun has cleared the hill you are hiding behind, and it is a separate sight from the day sight, so that if one is hit the other is generally OK.

Not the case with the M1A1 and the Leopard 2 which has the GPS/LRF/TIS all clustered together sharing the same periscope armoured housing.

(The Leopard 2A5 + is the worst for sight layout, as an HE hit to the GPS/LRF/TIS "doghouse" will often knock out the GAS, which is sitting along side on the same elevation.)

[hoggydog]

I see, I never knew what the real life difference was, I just knew there was one.

[BlackDeath]

I was trying the tank range on the T-62 and got some issue with the ranging :

Default ammo for tank range is HEAT BK15-M from 1980.

On the picture, range looks about 1600m, indexed ammo is BK15M, so 2nd column at 1600m.

Fire and...miss!

I guess BK4-M does not have the same ballistic value than the BK15M, meaning ballistic range columns on the FCS are not up to date? Am I right?

[Ssnake]

Do the shots go over?

Given that the stadia helper lines are dimensioned to fit a 2.7m high target (per SB Wiki) and that you fired on another T-62 (2.40m height) chances are that you overestimated the range by 15%, so the actual range in your given example may be closer to 1400m.

This is less of an error than I initially thought but might still result in a miss.

[Volcano]

I was trying the tank range on the T-62 and got some issue with the ranging :

Default ammo for tank range is HEAT BK15-M from 1980.

On the picture, range looks about 1600m, indexed ammo is BK15M, so 2nd column at 1600m.

Fire and...miss!

I guess BK4-M does not have the same ballistic value than the BK15M, meaning ballistic range columns on the FCS are not up to date? Am I right?

It could be that the bK scale isn't changing to match the BK15 when it is loaded, and is instead still showing for the BK-4. Yes, the ballistics for the two are very different IIRC. You are probably looking at putting the bK sight on 1000m or so for BK-15 in that situation because of the difference in ballistics.

[BlackDeath]

Do the shots go over?

Given that the stadia helper lines are dimensioned to fit a 2.7m high target (per SB Wiki) and that you fired on another T-62 (2.40m height) chances are that you overestimated the range by 15%, so the actual range in your given example may be closer to 1400m.

This is less of an error than I initially thought but might still result in a miss.

Just tried the same against the M1 (2.80m according to the wiki), which is at 1500m (according to the map)

Should be about 1400m according to the stadia helper lines

I shot at both 1400m and 1500m with BK15m (according to the gsp sight), both missed, and landed behind the target.

It goes straight on target with the BK4M at 1500m mesured on the GPS sight, though.

Conclusion, shooting with BK15M on the T-62 is quite tricky!

By the way, why is the T-62 TC always choosing HEAT againt tanks, anyway?

[Ssnake]

Just tried the same against the M1 (2.80m according to the wiki), which is at 1500m (according to the map)

Should be about 1400m according to the stadia helper lines

Well, there may be a bug preventing the ammunition-dependent range scales matching whatever your vehicle has loaded. We're currently investigating this.

By the way, why is the T-62 TC always choosing HEAT againt tanks, anyway?

The ammunition selection algorithm picks the round that has the greatest chance to create damage/to kill the target. Hit probability is not so much taken into account. The 115mm steel penetrators don't perform too well at longer ranges (and 1500m already is close to the extreme range for the T-62 under realistic combat conditions). At 500m range the choice may be different.

[Grenny]

Hm, i allways assumed that this was intentional. Stadialines dont change Unless you change the gps itself.

Irl i'd think the gunners would have correction tables for different ammo.

[Gibsonm]

Depends on the sight/nationality.

I know of some vehicles where there are multiple aiming marks / ranges superimposed on the one sight.

Pick the nature, then align the respective markings with the tgt and its range and fire.

[Eisenschwein]

Sorry that I miss that so far.

Shooting HESH or HEP is far away from what we know about shooting with FCS, it´s Art.

Shooting with HESH or HEP in the German Army we have 2 Rules, what we call Längen Änderungs Verfahren, or große und kleine Gabel. Try the Translator ;-)

Up to a distance to 1200 Meter, Kleine Gabel:

- Aim Center Mass

- Fire one Round

- if it goes behind: Set your GPS to - 200 Meter

- If it goes before the : Set your GPS to + 200 Meter

- Fire again

- If it goes Behind: Set your GPS - 100 Meter

- If it goes before: Set Your GPS + 100 Meter

- Fire again

Now there must be a hit, if not deadly move your aiming Point

Over a distance of 1200 Meter, Große Gabel:

- Aim Center Mass

- Fire one Round

- if it goes behind: Set your GPS to - 400 Meter

- If it goes before the : Set your GPS to + 400 Meter

- Fire again

- If it goes Behind: Set your GPS - 200 Meter

- If it goes before: Set Your GPS + 200 Meter

- Fire again

- If it goes Behind: Set your GPS - 100 Meter

- If it goes before: Set Your GPS + 100 Meter

- Fire again

Now there must be a hit, if not deadly move your aiming Point

BTW the BK 15 goes 300 Meter to far, so change the distances or try the Große Gabel.

Try it out, it works in SB.

[12Alfa]

We call it Bracketing the target, done it many times in the Scorpion turret on our Cougars (AVGP):gun::gun:

And yes it's a ART!:luxhello:

[Eisenschwein]

Hehe, Old School ;-)

[BlackDeath]

Hehe, Old School ;-)

yea, new FCS are now way too easy, no need to think anymore :gun:

anyway, if this is not a bug, its a feature :bigsmile:, is it possible to switch to bk4m in the tank range?

i do know the issue now, but some other player may be confused