To T-72 lovers... why do you like it?

[alpha6]

Need to tell again? there are more tanks in SB other than Leo2 and M1. We can fight against T80, other T72, Leo1...

And what do you think? The T72M1 can't kill the M1 or the Leo2?? Tell me you never got killed by a AI T72? And If the AI can kill your mighty M1 what will do a human?

An old adagio of fighter pilots say that the best pilot always win

well funny thing is in WWII a tiger tank was hit by over 120 round and kept

fighting some how in SB1 my lone M1 took on 12 T-72's and only lost it's radio.

[Tacbat]

An old adagio of fighter pilots say that the best pilot always win

Sure, if they are equally matched to begin with. Think P-51 vs Stuka, or Me-262 vs a Defiant.

[Captain_Colossus]

Well, dogfight anaologies may be a very rough comparison to combined arms teams tactics to begin with; even a tank which has damaged or destroyed main armament/fire control can still call artillery or report enemy positions, or even simply distract and tie up someone's attention long enough to accomplish something.

Bragging rights in multiplayer tourneys may be less forthcoming for the T-72 side which scores pyrrhic victory, or they may feel cheated in trigger pulling time and the feeling of payoff, granted, but that could also be true of the Leopard I simulated as T-72 workaround as well.

[ChuikovChambered]

Posted by GH Lieste

I reckon that it means a company, rather than platoon of 14 BFV engaged by a company of BMP, both sides supported by tanks.

Whatever you say.

Posted by GH Lieste

*All* BFV damaged in a longish skirmish, including several from M1 fire from the rear and fratricide between the BFVs . If you follow up the links it analyses the cause of loss of the BFC destroyed in this action.

I see. That's what I get for being too quick.:redface: Still, what would have happened even if the Iraqis became miracle makers and terminated all 14 M2s? The answer is simple: They would have been terminated by the M1s eventually. Even though they, in this scenario I've laid out, would have nailed all the Bradleys, the M1s would have blown them all apart. And at least 1 T-72 and 6 BMPs did get blown away during the battle. I'm not measuring success by penetration of lines. Sure, you can tear through lines by sheer attrition, but the losses could make it another pyrrhic victory. Though the phase line was not breached, and the M2s took a beating, the Iraqis got hit at least as bad, and were scared into abandoning the position.

So there's a lot of things that factor in a battle being a success or failure, and given my inferior knowledge on this, I'm not going to go any further.

Now, on to something completely different: Dogfighting. Now there's something I know more about than the particulars of ground combat.

Posted by Tacbat

Sure, if they are equally matched to begin with. Think P-51 vs Stuka, or Me-262 vs a Defiant.

Only if the Stuka pilot is Hans-Ulrich Rudel.:biggrin: 262 vs. Defiant... The only thing the Defiant can do to avoid an attack from out of the sun is chop the throttle and let the Messerschmitt go zooming past. The Defiant could outmaneuver the 262 easily, thus rendering the weakness of the Defiant's belly and front moot, given the speed that the 262 is likely to keep up in the event that it needs to bug out. But the 262 has speed, altitude, and guns on its side. You decide.

[dejawolf]

Well, dogfight anaologies may be a very rough comparison to combined arms teams tactics to begin with; even a tank which has damaged or destroyed main armament/fire control can still call artillery or report enemy positions, or even simply distract and tie up someone's attention long enough to accomplish something.

Bragging rights in multiplayer tourneys may be less forthcoming for the T-72 side which scores pyrrhic victory, or they may feel cheated in trigger pulling time and the feeling of payoff, granted, but that could also be true of the Leopard I simulated as T-72 workaround as well.

bragging rights? i'm sure you'll hear guys crewing inferior tanks bragging pretty loudly if they deliver a crushing defeat against a foe equipped with better tanks.

[Captain_Colossus]

That goes without saying- to even mention that is as about as necessary as bringing sand to the beach.

But I think the notion that players will grow tired of getting whooped in their jenky T-72s is at least in part due to some anticipation of unfair Multi-Player match ups and consistent beatings at the hands of first rate equipment.

We can agree that senario design can push the balance here either way- there's no reason to suggest that one or the other should always effect the same results. Furthermore, this means even less in single player mode.

[Stratos]

Just try changing the Ammos as Deja says. Imagine a Egyptian useing their "old" M1A1 against brand new Libyan T72 with nice ammo. And tell me what you think

[Kingtiger]

Just try changing the Ammos as Deja says. Imagine a Egyptian useing their "old" M1A1 against brand new Libyan T72 with nice ammo. And tell me what you think

Wouldnt M1s TIS still be superior? on the other hand a visibility of 500m or so would fix that problem.

/KT

[Tacbat]

Take a look at Enigma's "Crossroads" scenario. There, the TIS on the M1's provide a noticeable advantage over the T-72 in a reduced vis environment. You'd be able to manoeuvre to a flank/rear shot and engage without being spotted.

[LtGeorge]

Just try changing the Ammos as Deja says. Imagine a Egyptian useing their "old" M1A1 against brand new Libyan T72 with nice ammo. And tell me what you think

I also recall reading somewhere that those export M1s only have steel armor? Was that correct?

[dejawolf]

I also recall reading somewhere that those export M1s only have steel armor? Was that correct?

i read the M1A2s egypt bought didn't have DU in their armour array.

[rump]

Well we need the T72 to try it

And that's the best argument I've seen in this whole thread... :drink:

-Rump

[Companion]

hum, and i'm sure nobody would like to play WW2 vehicles in the game because we have the leopard 2A5. which is wrong at so many fundamental levels, as i'm constantly hearing how "great it would be to have WW2 tanks in SB"

whether the latest and newest is in a scenario is completely dependant on the scenario designer, not the guys playing the scenario.

oh i forgot. give the M1A1 or leopard 2A4 DM-13 and the T-72 3BM42M, and you have yourself a lop-sided battle... in favor of the T-72.

unlike the leopard 1, the T-72M1 has front turret thickness of nearly 560mm RHAe.

Wasn't T-72's carousel too small for 3BM42M?

[dejawolf]

Wasn't T-72's carousel too small for 3BM42M?

oh yeah, thats right. guess you'll have to stick with 3BM42.

[tankenator]

I agree with LtGeorge about the excitement of a playable T-72 being short lived once people try to use them.

The T-72 will definitely be able to go up against the M1 and Leo2, you just have to give the T-72 a numerical advantage. We will have people that don't mind playing the T-72, but it will be the same ones who do not mind playing the LeoAS1 (which isn't many -- they can be counted on one hand, and I am one of them).

I havent been on here in quite awhile, but I too dont mind playing AS1 tanks....

[[panzer]]

I havent been on here in quite awhile, but I too dont mind playing AS1 tanks....

Me either but i can say that the AS1 is prob the best tank in the sim for point blank action with its high rate of fire. At close range that thing really rocks.

Im guessing that playing a T72 with simalar tatics where u dont get in long lang slugfests( which almost all players cant resist the moment they see a target) that it would be capable of inflicting serious losses on a more modern foe.

[tarball]

That'll be a section of tanks on blue and two platoons of T-72 (or factor those numbers out) to make a realistic ratio...

In any case, most people wanna shoot at humans gunning "REAL" opfor vehicles and not other "friendly" tanks.

The M1Ax and Leo1x and Leo2x were commissioned and designed to fight warsaw pact/russian gear. Even as it stands today, most opfor opponents would likely be using WP/russian stuff.

In whatever manner that the T-72 is handicapped (fire control, IR rather than TIS) the hotshots, the curious and the masochists will flock to the T-72 for bragging rights to take down the western equipment on a regular basis.

The T-72 will invigorate the PE userbase in a major way.

[Hedgehog]

I'd be curious as to whats inside these 'targets'

as well as their sights and sh*t.

but its always more fun to be the bad guys :sonic:

[Tigershark]

I'll pleased when this rig is in the sim...

TS

[tankenator]

Is it planned or another pipe dream. I have not played in months, and from what ive seen on team speak, others are of the same mind--the userbase is dwindling, and new players arrive and leave as soon as they can, selling their copies on ebay......

[oscar19681]

Well it is planned " on the list" like many other things. When they say "on the list " it basicly means we will probably implement it somewhere between the present and next 5 years. Personally i think it will might show up by the time they release sb2 (that is if they ever release it) around 2010 or later. About the userbase. I noticed that the posts and community,s activaty is severly low. Maybe because its summer i dont know.

[dejawolf]

Well it is planned " on the list" like many other things. When they say "on the list " it basicly means we will probably implement it somewhere between the present and next 5 years. Personally i think it will might show up by the time they release sb2 (that is if they ever release it) around 2010 or later. About the userbase. I noticed that the posts and community,s activaty is severly low. Maybe because its summer i dont know.

actually "on the list" means that it will be in the game between now, and when one of the developers eventually die.

[alpha6]

Is it planned or another pipe dream. I have not played in months, and from what ive seen on team speak, others are of the same mind--the userbase is dwindling, and new players arrive and leave as soon as they can, selling their copies on ebay......

I've been looking on ebay and still no SB Pro pe:(

[OnAlienware]

I'm willing to wait. Will the initial release of the T-72 include the T-72B?

[Ssnake]

To the extent that the fire control system is the same I guess that we have no trouble representing several T-72 variants with the same interior and behavior (ultimately only the automotive and armor protection parameters would vary).