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Destinée à être remplacée à la Leclerc?

It would add a possibility of refighting the Napoleonic wars, in a modern setting.

Napoleon's Lieutenant: "Lovely uniform colour today by the way."

Napoleon: "Zank you! I zink it works."

:biggrin:

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Hey Hedge,

Destinée à être remplacée à la Leclerc?

It would add a possibility of refighting the Napoleonic wars, in a modern setting.

Napoleon's Lieutenant: "Lovely uniform colour today by the way."

Napoleon: "Zank you! I zink it works."

:biggrin:

which UK IFV do you want to take for modern settings.

I think the technology of the warrior is from the napoleonic time period.:wink2:

cheers

Duke

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Hey Hedge,

which UK IFV do you want to take for modern settings.

I think the technology of the warrior is from the napoleonic time period.:wink2:

cheers

Duke

Duke, the Warrior's in service date was the Battle of Waterloo! :biggrin:

(And nothing's changed, since. It still uses semaphore flags instead of a radio.)

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No stabilization, no computerized fire control system.

Pea shooter or not, the Marder proved very effective in Afghanistan due to its comparatively generous ammo supply which allows it to provide suppressive fire even for extended periods in battle.

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see its not always about the bells and whistles, the T-34 taught the world that.

The T34 did actually have bells and whistles. Or, more accurately, the tank commanders had 'em. It was how they communicated in the absence of radio. Plus semaphore flags of course... :) You want to go back to that?

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but to get those numbers was the cool thing. the developments in manufacturing and construction processes were awesome. the drop in unit cost through the war was staggering too,

T-34 cost:

269,599r in 1941 to 135,000r by the end of 1942

the production time was also halved in this period

(numbers from wikipedia)

not sure how the Sherman compared.

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not sure how the Sherman compared.

I'm not sure about production costs and etc, but I do know that a good number of Soviet tankers actually preferred the M4 over the T-34, and even claimed that it had a superior gun than the T-34's.

Given how, er, mediocre the plain old M4 was, or even the up-gunned 76mm versions, that doesn't look good for the T-34!

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The whole Russian approach to war on the Eastern Front was basically to drown the Germans in blood......Russian blood, but hey, if you've got the blood to spill...

Basically...The T-34 is the triumph of numbers over everything else!

I don't think that it is a fair assessment. The T-34, when it came out on the Russian front, was a severe shock to the Wehrmacht. They had considered the Soviets utterly beaten yet these produced a tank that was pretty much immune against the most widely proliferated anti tank gun. It took the Germans two years to come up with a direct response to it (the PzKpfW V ("Panther")) and at least until the Pz IV was equipped with a long 75mm gun the T-34 was equal or superior to everything the Germans had but the Tiger. The late T-34-85 was adequate in all characteristics until the last days of the War in Europe, with two notable weaknesses - insufficient numbers of radio sets, and relatively poor optics. Both reflected limitations in skill and production capacity of the Soviet economy, not a lack of understanding their relative importance.

While the Soviets probably sacrificed more of their own soldiers than necessary, of all the possible indicators the T-34's design is the one thing that does not support the theory of Stalin callously sacrificing his minions.

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I'm not sure about production costs and etc, but I do know that a good number of Soviet tankers actually preferred the M4 over the T-34, and even claimed that it had a superior gun than the T-34's.

Given how, er, mediocre the plain old M4 was, or even the up-gunned 76mm versions, that doesn't look good for the T-34!

Well T-34/85 and the Sherman not sure what variant. clashed in Korea.

And reportedly the M4 was superior, but that May be due to better crew training.

And combat experienced crews

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Insofar as comparing one on one, there are problems- tanks do not square off one against one like prize fighters but rather as part of armies. At the operational level, the Soviets learned pretty well by 1943 how to fight a war, they learned how to check 'blitzkrieg', they developed their own threat of 'deep pursuit' and 'deep battle,' at the tactical level they weren't as quite sophisticated. You have to look at it also in the context of the stories if they are believed of factory workers and conscripts just taking their tanks off the assembly line into battle with no training- there was nothing else available.

The Sherman was an excellent open country 'cavalry tank'- the US tank destroyers were conceived to deal with the perceived German advantage in armor, if the Shermans weren't getting bogged down in close combat, they are a threat if they can beat you and race to the finish line. It was far as I know a more comfortable ride than the basic T-34 model.

In the beginning of the War, the German armor was generally underarmed and underarmored compared to the best Allied tanks- what the Germans had in their favor were better tactics, excellent leadership, and a more advanced turret layout, three crew members in the turret rather than two, and radios. Still, under select conditions, there were cases where a single Allied tank on either front were able to hold up a German column until the Germans could improvise with something- like bringing up an anti-aircraft gun to knock it out.

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I actually wouldn't mind seeing a T34/85 in SB (yes I know this is the content removal thread). Just imagine coming across one of these when you're patrolling in your MRAP with only a .50

I was going to make a joke about going out on patrol in M113A52 'SuperGavins'........But I think that right there is enough to make everybody laugh!

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