Micromanagement and MOUT/Rivers

[SexPanther]

Hey guys,

I've been playing steel beasts awhile and just bought 3.0 and I'm absolutely loving it.

There's just one big question that's always bothered me and I apologize if my prior searching failed me. Is there any good way to maneuver my troops and armor around MOUT environments without too much micromanagment? Very frequently my advances into cities is completely halted by pathfinding issues with walls surrounding the cities and structures.

Another major issues I'm having is with my tanks driving directly into rivers. This is less of a concern for me because it's pretty easy to avoid if you put a little thought into your movements. However it does put a damper on things when you lose an M1A2 an hour into a mission... :icon_frown:

So is there anyway to make my units more aware of their environment?

Thanks guys and thanks to Esims for an awesome sim!

[Ssnake]

Nav meshes should at least help while your units move in column formation. Use the Shift- and Alt- modifier hotkeys to switch between different pathing modes (road-bound, cross-country/direct, and NO obstacle avoidance).

Driving into rivers may still happen if you use unsuitable formation orders. It could well be that this is actually an intentional design to expose flawed tactics at the platoon level, and not so much an inability on our end. I mean, SB Pro is supposed to be a training tool, so it should not cover up the flawed decisions of the user. At least not in some training forms. I'm just sayin'. I'd have to have a look at the specific situation to decide whether it would be desirable to have the units drive into the water, or if it would be better if they automatically avoided it. Really - it depends.

[SexPanther]

I use shift regularly to guide my units. I'll give the alt modifier a shot.

As for your other comment, I could understand what your saying and I've seen applications of both. I guess I'll just monitor my units specific movements closer in the future.

As for walls, I guess will just manually move troops through openings when they get hung up.

[Koen]

Someone suggested once to use Breach tactics to move units through cities (in column) which would lower the chance of units getting stuck.

Haven't tried it myself yet though, esp. not in 3.0

[Oceola]

Nav meshes should at least help while your units move in column formation. Use the Shift- and Alt- modifier hotkeys to switch between different pathing modes (road-bound, cross-country/direct, and NO obstacle avoidance).

Just tried a small and simple scenario,where a BMP-3 had to reach a waypoint at a distance of approx.800 mtrs away.I've intentionally made a route go through some minor obstacles like trees,and then tested it twice:first one with no pathfinding,and a second one with cross-country (vehicles)attributes.

Yes,map was navmeshed,and,surprisingly enough,my first trip with no pathfinding turned out to be abt.30 seconds faster.

How come,or am I missing something?

[Werewolf]

Someone suggested once to use Breach tactics to move units through cities (in column) which would lower the chance of units getting stuck.

Haven't tried it myself yet though, esp. not in 3.0

I don't have 3.002 yet but can say with authority that breach tactics using column formation absolutely works when one doubts the AI's ability.

It's just about the only way I've found to successfully assault across a bridge. It will get you thru towns easily and those pesky rocky fields if you carefully plot your route.

When it comes to tricky path finding don't depend on the AI - BREACH is your friend.

[Gibsonm]

Except of course, be careful.

BREACH for a plough / roller means the turret over the side and advance at a very slow rate.

If you aren't actually "breaching" you may prefer the gun to be in the frontal arc.

As for crossing a bridge (appreciate this not the only time units come close to water):

Ah you should have been in the class today, we covered this there.

1. Conduct recce to confirm that bridge can take wait. MLC 60 tk trying to cross MLC 10 wooden bridge not a good look.

2. Plot "normal" Tk Tp route (i.e. to conform with whatever their task is) up to approx 150m short of bridge.

3. Plot new march route across bridge (using shift click to lock onto road and putting in a way point either side of the bridge). Continue this route to 150m plus of bridge. You can also select wide spacing for further confidence.

4. 150m plus of bridge create new route (or add to existing one) going back to what they were doing before the bridge.

Basically this gives them room prior to the bridge to go from say assault in line, flat out, to slow, wide spaced, in column.

They then cross the bridge.

Then they can spread back out and continue on after the defile.

Crossing a laid bridge not much different (except maybe no road the lock the route to with the "shift click").

[Ssnake]

Just tried a small and simple scenario,where a BMP-3 had to reach a waypoint at a distance of approx.800 mtrs away. ... surprisingly enough,my first trip with no pathfinding turned out to be abt.30 seconds faster.

How come,or am I missing something?

Well, nav meshes don't guarantee fastest travel. They just let the unit select a path by which it will DEFINITELY reach the destination by avoiding obstacles NOT shown on the map (provided that the destination location can be reached AT ALL). These obstacle-avoiding paths set more route vertices than a human player would, and each route vertex slows down the driver a bit, so the overall speed is slower.

However, try your same experiment with a V shaped wall segment between your start location and the destination point. Local obstacle avoidance will guide the unit right into the funnel where the two walls will eventually meet. The nav mesh assisted route will bypass this "local minimum" right away. In that case the time comparison will show "never" vs "after some time" for both routes, which may make up for some of the time lost before.

Understand that RIGHT NOW the utility value of the nav meshes does not fully exploit its potential. The nav mesh is vital infrastructure for the routing by computer-controlled units, especially if more autonomy is given to them. The infrastructure must be in place first before we can gradually add more features that will in the end show massively improved overall behavior. This isn't done over night, but with every update you will probably see some progress.

[Oceola]

Got it,thanks.