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At first I was like "this thing is such a piece of crap" but I've come to the conclusion that it's probably the most manly vehicle in SB and is a total blast to use. Quickly becoming one of my favorite vehicles, and enjoying the skill required to be decent with it... even more than the T72 with its cheating LRF.

Tank engagements are more intense are the use of combined arms is more important than ever.

Now bring on the playable M60!

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At first I was like "this thing is such a piece of crap" but I've come to the conclusion that it's probably the most manly vehicle in SB and is a total blast to use. Quickly becoming one of my favorite vehicles, and enjoying the skill required to be decent with it... even more than the T72 with its cheating LRF.

Tank engagements are more intense are the use of combined arms is more important than ever.

Now bring on the playable M60!

+1

Pretty much the same conclusion as me and the Soviet vu guys have came to.

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I've only tried in on the range, and that was pretty upsetting once one got away from KE rounds (OOH, LOOK AT THE SKY), but I get what you're saying.

I've wanted to play with a bad-guy tank ever since M1TP in 1989. Since 2.654 and the T-72, I wish that I started Steel Beasts with a tank that forced me to look around. It's completely changed my immersion and my enjoyment of the game.

Before, I'd go from BP to BP and use my TIS-equipped tank as a mobile AT gun, very much playing from a gunner-centric point of view, engaging from as far as possible. Now, clattering around in the T-72 tin box of doom it's a lot more fun for me. CV90/Scout/AFV players have been saying this forever, though. Despite their having TIS sights, lightly-armoured, less protected vehicles open up the sim to some very interesting gameplay.

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I tried few small skirmishes made by myself - against civilians and infantry or light recon. units it can hold on its own if you are close enough...

But if you want to harm anything that is a little tougher and less outdated ... ah well .. good luck :)

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I think there is a retro tanker element here and having a T-62 makes you appreciate the good stuff. I do most of my simming in the editor, matching T-62's with Leo 1's for example and playing both sides.

My favorite move with the Russian tanks is to fire, then switch to driver and try to use the low-low range reverse in the 62/72 to back behind a crest for a reload. It's a blast.

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Use HEAT for tanks.

KE for PCs

(And within spitting distance if you can.)

That's interesting. Why HEAT on tanks and KE on PCs, isn't it usually the other way around?

Doesn't really matter, I can't hardly hit crap over 1500m with the T-62 anyway.

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That's interesting. Why HEAT on tanks and KE on PCs, isn't it usually the other way around?

Doesn't really matter, I can't hardly hit crap over 1500m with the T-62 anyway.

It was a time when Composite Armour was a wildly fantastical dream, like the film Forbidden Planet, all Armour at that time was solid chunks of Cast Armour plate, which a HEAT round will slice through like a knife through butter. (So the T-62s Leo 1s, M48s, M60s main anti armour round was the HEAT. Chieftain did it differently with the HESH.)

Take the Leo 1 they (ze Germans) designed that knowing that any round of X type will punch through Y thickness of Armour, so why haul that dead weight around for not that much more additional protection?

(If you're hit, then you're doing it wrong.)

Only with the advent of composite and ERA armours in the 70s & 80s did the balance swing in favour of armour over HEAT, Also APFSDS rounds started making an appearance, which addressed the ERA Armour types emerging in the Eastern Bloc (Their equivalent to composite armour)

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Yeah... its shit.

O'rly?

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Anyways the T-62 seems to be a bit bugged. The commander always tells you to shoot sabot against tanks and when you run out of sabot he starts using regular HE rounds. You have to switch to commander position and manually order loading of HEAT rounds if you want to use them. I just tested it in editor, gave the tank HEAT and HE rounds (no APFSDS) and the commander wants you to shoot tanks with the HE rounds.

Is there any way to overdrive the AI commanders insane orders?

edit: BK-4M seems nice enough.

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622CD7A7EF5483AE12F2E2DE4B54E75FFEF51C90

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Anyways the T-62 seems to be a bit bugged. The commander always tells you to shoot sabot against tanks and when you run out of sabot he starts using regular HE rounds. You have to switch to commander position and manually order loading of HEAT rounds if you want to use them. I just tested it in editor, gave the tank HEAT and HE rounds (no APFSDS) and the commander wants you to shoot tanks with the HE rounds.

Is there any way to overdrive the AI commanders insane orders?

We'll send him to a reeducation center if the secret police corrobates your allegations, comrade.

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I recall that different sources quote that T-62 gun accuracy is supposed to bleed off somewhere around 1600 meters at the low end, or has high as 1800 meters, but I've seen the 1600 m figure quoted more (which doesn't necessarily prove anything if they are all corroborating or repeating the same source.) The 115m gun is accurate and has a flat trajectory up to that point, about as good as NATO 105 mm L7, after that, the T-62 will have more trouble.

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I recall that different sources quote that T-62 gun accuracy is supposed to bleed off somewhere around 1600 meters at the low end, or has high as 1800 meters, but I've seen the 1600 m figure quoted more (which doesn't necessarily prove anything if they are all corroborating or repeating the same source.) The 115m gun is accurate and has a flat trajectory up to that point, about as good as NATO 105 mm L7, after that, the T-62 will have more trouble.

I think above 1600 you're probably pretty limited by optics, too. Getting a decent range reading isn't easy at all.

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Anyways the T-62 seems to be a bit bugged. The commander always tells you to shoot sabot against tanks and when you run out of sabot he starts using regular HE rounds. You have to switch to commander position and manually order loading of HEAT rounds if you want to use them. I just tested it in editor, gave the tank HEAT and HE rounds (no APFSDS) and the commander wants you to shoot tanks with the HE rounds.

Is there any way to overdrive the AI commanders insane orders?

IIRC, it depends on the target in question and the angle. If you are wanting the T-62 to shoot HEAT at the front of a modern tank then it will not, because (despite small weak areas on some tanks) it is supposed to know that it will be ineffective -- we are talking about 400 or so HEAT, vs > 1000 protection. It is preferring instead to use HE rounds for HESH type effects in this case, I think.

But that is what I remember. I am not saying a bug isn't there, but to know for sure try this: do the same test but change the targets to Centurions, M60s and/or other T-62s. It *should* use HEAT on those. If it does use HEAT, then it is not a bug, the AI is using its gift of perception. If it does not use HEAT in this case, then yes, certainly a bug.

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IIRC, it depends on the target in question and the angle. If you are wanting the T-62 to shoot HEAT at the front of a modern tank then it will not, because (despite small weak areas on some tanks) it is supposed to know that it will be ineffective -- we are talking about 400 or so HEAT, vs > 1000 protection. It is preferring instead to use HE rounds for HESH type effects in this case, I think.

But that is what I remember. I am not saying a bug isn't there, but to know for sure try this: do the same test but change the targets to Centurions, M60s and/or other T-62s. It *should* use HEAT on those. If it does use HEAT, then it is not a bug, the AI is using its gift of perception. If it does not use HEAT in this case, then yes, certainly a bug.

But the problem is that the HEAT performs much better overall than the APFSDS in T-62. Just spawn a T-72M1 against you (don't give it any ammo so it won't shoot back) and try both APFSDS and HEAT rounds on it. HEAT rounds penetrate the glacis with almost every shot, the APFSDS rounds pretty much never.

edit: I also had a problem with the tank using HE rounds against other tanks, here's the screenies:

1. I gave the tank 2 APFSDS, 8 HE and 30 HEAT rounds in editor:

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2. The commander wants me to engage the T-72M1 with APFSDS even if it's not going to penetrate it (HEAT kills it every time) so I'll be good boy and shoot those 2 APFSDS rounds away:

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3. At this point when all the APFSDS rounds are expended wouldn't it be logical to switch to HEAT when facing tanks? Not according to the T-62 commander. BTW. loader shouts "HEAT UP!" but wrong round is loaded:

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Well, I did not say his behavior was ideal -- I was questioning whether it was a bug insofar that he NEVER uses HEAT like you first said. Forget about the rest of it for now.

All I asked was to try the test against a Centurion, or try a Leopard 1A2. If it refuses to use HEAT on those targets then it is a bug, otherwise it is probably just an issue with the TC's perception (which is complicated to say the least, and always needs improvement). ;)

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RE: Weak APFSDS for 115mm / 100mm

The KE rounds modeled in-game for both calibers are very old vintage, from 60s~early 70s.

I asked Ssnake quite a while ago about any plan to add more relatively modern rounds (70s~80s, plus some non-Russian export rounds) and the answer was that there simply isn't enough data for performance estimation of those later rounds.

So... yeah, one would have to take that in mind when making scenarios with historical background.

The current selection is good enough for Arab-Israeli war scenarios though. (100mm actually need even weaker rounds for early wars)

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Well, I did not say his behavior was ideal -- I was questioning whether it was a bug insofar that he NEVER uses HEAT like you first said. Forget about the rest of it for now.

All I asked was to try the test against a Centurion, or try a Leopard 1A2. If it refuses to use HEAT on those targets then it is a bug, otherwise it is probably just an issue with the TC's perception (which is complicated to say the least, and always needs improvement). ;)

I think I found the bug. The game thinks the OF-11 round is HEAT. You can verify it yourself in the tank range mission briefing, it says:

30% BM-5 (1967), KE

50% OF-11 HEF-T (1960s), HEAT

20% BK-15M (1980s), Spec. A

In the tank range mission the game prefers BK-15M over OF-11 but in the single player mission I made I had older BK-4M ammo.

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