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Javelin, UAV and TOP attack mode?


macieksoft
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As you can see on this movie Javelin can take down UAV with both DIRect and TOP attack mode.

Is it normal that it can take down fast moving target with TOP attack mode? Or it is just a bug?

In manual there is written that even for helicopters operator should use DIRect mode.

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Congratulations - you found an exploit.

We're not simulating the Javelin to the letter of its field manual. I'm sure, if one of our army customers feels that our current implementation is inadequate for his training needs, he'll contact us about it. There's only so much level of detail that we can implement on our own power.

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^SSnake,

Thanks for the note. I've also noticed that SB ProPE fails to accurately model the challenges of firing the SPIKE missle by left-hand dominante midgets with astigmatism and chronic obstructive pulmonary disorder. Please remedy this gross deficiency as soon as possible. I will have our Commander in Chief send you a cashiers cheque for 1 Billion Wonkadollars.

Sincerly,

Commander Fluffy-Paws of the Tweventy-Nines Armored Division, Training Group.

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You've got to think outside the box, otherwise bug and exploits like this get missed.

I would not have tried it in game, as Javelin has very slim chances of hitting small and agile targets like an UAV or even a Helicopter(maybe if its hovering and does no spot the launch).

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Well Javelin is supposed to be used against (hovering) helicopters..

4-27.gif

That being said, missile flight models in SB are very simplified so I'm not overly surprised that this works.. not sure what can be done about that.

Also I'm not sure I like the pile-on on somebody who just plays around with the simulation.. I mean if something works we ohh and ahh about 'emergent gameplay' so I guess it's only fair if we snicker about things that don't work.. of course posting style is another matter ;)

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Also I'm not sure I like the pile-on on somebody who just plays around with the simulation.. I mean if something works we ohh and ahh about 'emergent gameplay' so I guess it's only fair if we snicker about things that don't work.. of course posting style is another matter ;)

That's what I tried to say.

Macieksofts approach seemed "out of the box"...but I see that actually a good thing.

If you're not "playing around" many glitches will stay hidden.

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Has anyone tried to kill enemy troops by landing helicopters on them or sawing them up with the rotor blades? What about one Hind Helicopter attempting to bring down a Blackhawk by spearing the cockpit with its cannon?

The point: Steel Beasts isn't a life simulator. There are many such 'glitches' which haven't been discovered yet, certainly. To the extent that they don't really break the simulator because you would never have discovered them in a normal session of gameplay but because you were playing around with things which are outside any practical scope of the simulation- I don't think eSim really benefits by such trivial things, or things which would probably require completely going back to scratch in order to fix something that isn't worth the trouble. Thinking outside the box in those cases aren't really too useful.

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Well Javelin is supposed to be used against (hovering) helicopters..

4-27.gif

That being said, missile flight models in SB are very simplified so I'm not overly surprised that this works.. not sure what can be done about that.

Also I'm not sure I like the pile-on on somebody who just plays around with the simulation.. I mean if something works we ohh and ahh about 'emergent gameplay' so I guess it's only fair if we snicker about things that don't work.. of course posting style is another matter ;)

About the only time that would likely happen is if you caught the Hind landing or lifting off- it's not normal practice either because of its flight characteristics or because of doctrine for the Hind to hover. The way it was designed is not exactly analogous to a Western attack helicopter.

I think this is a legitimate bug if the AI can ruin scenarios and shoot down drones this way, that's a problem, not so much if the only time you'll see it is when a human player sets up a mission in the editor to do it- set the drone to fly low and just happens to fly right by the missile operator. If you it bothers you to shoot down drones, then don't do it- if on the other hand you actually find it fun, consider it a feature, enjoy.

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If the enemy is equipped with high-tech equipment like a Javelin it's safe to assume that low-flying UAVs are no longer safe. Whether they get shot down by anti tank missiles or some other means is, from a tactical point of view, of secondary importance (IMO).

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It's known that they've been shot down by SAMs and in some air to air duels but the odds of even detecting a drone that often operate high enough that it's quite difficult to see or hear them? Just knowing that they're there is the rub.

Because generally anti-aircraft missiles operate by throwing fragments at the aircraft (as I understand it), the Javelin in top attack mode actually seems closer to the proper effect. But I tend to think it's more unlikely than not that you would want to rely on a missile like that for drone defense, likewise, the risk seems much more minimal compared to other types of weapons.

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Look, our standard UAV flies pretty low. It'll hardly reach much above 400m/1200ft altitute above ground. This isn't your standard Predator or GlobalHawk circling at 60,000ft, therefore it's a lot more vulnerable to ground fire (and observation). Whether the real Javelin could hit such a real drone under the same circumstances, I don't know, but the reality is that the UAV was a quick hack for one of our customers who wanted to have the basic capability of an eye in the sky while the Javelin is still a prototype made playable especially for the US players of the SB Pro PE community.

No unit in Steel Beasts that moves without direct contact to the ground uses any kind of a flight model whatsoever. All these objects simply vector through space with a simplistic guidance system. It is unreasonable to expect completely realistic behavior of any of the systems involved. Should a customer actually want us to develop an actual missile simulation with flight model and a model of the guidance unit it would be justified to raise the expectations. But this won't happen in all likelihood because the training for which SB Pro is designed is not missile operator training but rather the tactical effect that these missiles have on the battlefield.

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It is unreasonable to expect completely realistic behavior of any of the systems involved. Should a customer actually want us to develop an actual missile simulation with flight model and a model of the guidance unit it would be justified to raise the expectations. But this won't happen in all likelihood because the training for which SB Pro is designed is not missile operator training but rather the tactical effect that these missiles have on the battlefield.

I'm not against you here- I'm not saying it ought to be the case we can shoot these down, or suggesting the model needs to be refined to that point.

It seems to me you think it's low priority right now to take a look at, which I would agree, I don't thing shooting down drones with anti-tank missiles really is the most urgent thing needed. Lack of data, lack of real world examples of that, we're on the same page, maybe just looking at it differently.

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Well, I certainly don't want to create the impression that we won't do anything about this case at all. The team already is looking at the case. I would however not want to raise expectations that it'll be more than a basic fix to prevent a missile lock on something like a UAV.

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